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We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

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Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#41
I am a data engineer working on a machine learning team with models actively used as part of our product(s).

From my experiences working in various contexts (applied machine learning, analytics, policy research, academics, etc...), there are several of factors that contribute to this shortage: (1) "data engineering" often requires a lot of breadth and knowledge, (2) "data engineering" is often (derisively and naively) referred to as the "janitorial work" of data science, (3) the spectrum of roles and requirements within the "data engineering" domain, in terms of job descriptions, can range from database systems administration, to ETL, to data warehousing, curation of data services / APIs, business intelligence, to the design/deployment/operation of pipelines and distributed data processing and storage systems (these aren't mutually exclusive, but often job descriptions fall into one of these stovepipes).

Some of my quick thoughts and anecdata:

Companies have made large investments in creating 'data science' teams, and many of those companies have trouble realizing value from those investments.

A part of this stems from investments and teams with no tangible vision of how that team will generate value. And there are several other contributing factors…

"Dirty work." People haven't learned how to, and more often don't want to do it. There's a vast number of tutorials and boot camps out there that teach newcomers how to "learn data science" with clean datasets -- this is ideal for learning those basics, but the real world usually does not have clean or ideal datasets -- the dataset may not even exist -- and there are a number of non-ideal constraints.

There are people that wish to call themselves “data scientists” that “don’t want to write code” and would “prefer to do the analysis and storytelling”

Engineering as the application of science with real world constraints: there are a number of factors that we take into account, often acquired through painful experience, that aren’t part of these tutorials, bootcamps, or academic environments.

Many “data scientists” I’ve met have a hard time adapting to and working with these constraints (e.g. we believe that the application of data science would solve/address __ problem, but: how do we know and show that it works and is useful? what are the dependencies, and costs of developing and applying that solution? is it a one-time solution, or is it going to be a recurring application? does the solution require people? who will use it? what are the assumptions or expectations of those operators and users? is it suitable? is it maintainable? is it sustainable? how long will it take? what are the risks involved and how do we manage them? is it re-usable, and can we amortize its costs over time? is it worth doing? This is part of a methodology that comes from experience, versus what is taught in data science)

Larger teams with more people/financial/political resources can specialize and take advantage of these divisions of labor, which helps recognize the process aspects of applying data science and address some of the above

Short story: if you view data engineering as "janitorial work" you're missing the big picture

Anyone else notice that the attributes of a 'unicorn' data scientist include the traits of a 'data engineer?'

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upskilling is one of the most ineffective costly ways to try and "re-program" workers and it mostly doesn't work because it's not about skills it's about talent.

Talent that occurs through the genetic/epigenetic process of having attained a Data Science masters degree after earning a Computer Science degree? I am a believer in inherent talent but Data Engineering is a skill set.

Engineering is a talent skill there is a world of difference between teaching someone starting from scratch and then starting someone first having to unlearn what they learned to then learn perhaps a completely new way of thinking.

Most of the reskill programs I have heard of failed miserably exactly because the skill isn't enough.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#43

I'm trying to switch careers into "Data Engineering" now, as a full stack developer who is more interested in ML, and I've found almost no traction internally at my company or externally. It looks like I may just accept a full stack position at a good company that does a lot of data science for now, but though I would ask - Where are all these jobs?

My official title is "Data Scientist" although I'm closer to the "ML Engineer" someone else mentions in a child comment. Frankly speaking, if your company doesn't need a data engineer, it won't hire one or move you into that role. They likely don't, either, if you're experiencing this pushback -- data engineers often develop ETL pipelines or data warehouses, both of which are very useful if your company has a data te…

> There's actually a shortage of data-savvy people who can also write production software, and you would nicely complement a more research-inclined data scientist or analyst -- someone with far more experience with research/analysis than development.

I experience the same problem with shortage-at-price-X in the field you describe. I'm a machine learning engineer with experience in MCMC methods, but I also have a lot of low-level Python and Cython experience, some intermediate experience with database internals, and lots of experience writing well-crafted code for production systems.

There are basically zero companies willing to pay what I'm seeking (which is a salary based on my previous job and a few offers I got around the time I took that job). In fact, in some of the more expensive cities, the real wage offered is far lower than other markets.

I've seen reputable, multi-billion dollar companies offering in the $140k range for this type of role in New York. That's wildly below anything reasonable for this sort of thing in New York. I've seen companies in Minneapolis offering $130k for the same kind of job -- and even that is still too low for Minneapolis! The same has been true in San Francisco as well.

Because these companies value you more for simply looking good on paper and looking good as a piece of office ornamentation when investors stroll through, and they view you as an arbitrary work receptacle closer to a software janitor than a statistical specialist, their whole mindset is about how to drive wage down.

Frankly, given the stresses of the job and the risk of burnout, I think it's actually a terrible time to be in the machine learning / computational stats employment field, despite all of the interesting new work and advances being made. The intellectual side is good, but the quality of jobs is through the floor.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#45
Ignoring the breathless nature of the article, this is a buzzword label for a commodity skill set that pays a commodity salary in tech. It is also the commodity skill set that my employers have all paid me for.

There has been for a long time hype around new technology and labels for business intelligence, data warehousing, big data, and now data engineering/science. I'm not saying there are not some roles in this space that return huge value to organizations, but that these opportunities are much rarer than the buzz indicates.

I wonder if the perceived shortage is mainly hype as the shift to new cloud technologies makes many of the older ideas a little less useful - if you are plowing data into BigQuery, you probably aren't so worried about your star schema data model for reporting.

I would strongly advise people that look at these types of articles to look at the roles in question and ask "Is this role on the critical path to customers paying us?" My experience has been that the answer is often "No." This is bad. I have also seen situations where businesses that do rely on smart data integration can show that they are selling dollar bills for ten cents that still have trouble getting customers on board with spending that ten cents. Business is weird.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#46
Quick sidenote, anyone know where the databases / distributed systems engineering jobs are at? E.g. if one wanted to not use these tools but also go help build these tools?

I can think of Facebook, Google, Microsoft, IBM (which locations and groups within these companies / where?). I can also think of Confluent, CitusDB, Databricks, etc.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we're in the middle of a talent shortage [and don't believe in upskilling]."

Upskilling is one of the most ineffective costly ways to try and "re-program" workers and it mostly doesn't work because it's not about skills it's about talent.

How would you distinguish talent from experience?

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#48

From the article: "Data engineers are the janitors who keep your data clean and flowing." Hm, I wonder why he's having problems hiring janitors.

Janitors? They are certainly more than janitors! More like plumbers... getting your data safely from point a to point b without plugging things up while passing through [process] boundary's. How much does a plumber cost? $140 / hr? Sounds about right.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#49
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there was 1 gallon of water left on earth, Bill gates would buy that gallon for $50 billion, and everyone else would die of dehydration. really? who would sell the last gallon of water on earth?

Someone who just drank the last 2nd last gallon. ;)

and what would he use the money for :)?

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course this is more or less always true - there are only shortages or excesses of things when prices don't or can't adjust freely. If there was 1 gallon of water left on earth, Bill gates would buy that gallon for $50 billion, and everyone else would die of dehydration. There has always been a shortage of maids willing to do all my house work for $10. And there is a shortage of data engineers at $x, but there woul…

> If there was 1 gallon of water left on earth, Bill gates would buy that gallon for $50 billion, and everyone else would die of dehydration. really? who would sell the last gallon of water on earth?

If they needed water to prime the last pump on earth?
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