[deleted]
Crockford
41–50 of 117 posts
Re: Crockford
#42It disappoints me to see how many folks on Hacker News have responded to this incident by condemning the entire concept of standards of conduct and the idea that the developer community should take the goal of inclusivity and sensitivity seriously. There is no question that our community too often can feel hostile to those who aren't white hetero men, and that is a real problem. On the other hand, there is no questio…
> But creating a community that is comfortable for everyone is an inherently valuable goal.
Well, I can never be comfortable in a community where I might have my reputation and/or career destroyed over a reference to testicles that some might deem inappropriate.
The people doing this are vicious and hateful, and they need to be given a taste of their own medicine.
Re: Crockford
#43There's the old idea of "you judge your actions by your intentions and others intentions by their actions." I think culturally we've entered into this weird area where we're not even judging people so much by their actions but rather by how their actions make some people feel. There is nothing wrong with being mindful of how your statements and actions are perceived. Communication is always a two-way street where wha…
Absolutely. It's great that societal norms of what is acceptable in speech are progressing to be considerate of more and more out-groups. But we need to be mindful that news of these new norms do not reach everyone simultaneously, and we should not tar and feather people for not independently coming upon the insight that a certain element of speech can be hurtful. While we should all seek to understand and empathize with the rest of the world, it's a vast, complex world beyond any one person's direct experience. If someone gratuitously drops the N-word, ostracise them; but if there is good reason to believe the speaker is well-intentioned but perhaps ignorant on some point of concern, the proper response is to discreetly engage in a respectful, open dialogue, not to publicly shame anyone. If the speech is hurtful and dialogue fruitless, direct action may be required, but not before.
Re: Crockford
#44Mr. Straw is part of the problem, imo. There's a lawful vs chaotic dichotomy going on - Mr. Straw started out lawful conservative, but then found out about a different set of laws he could leverage into a position of power. It's a similar but different power leverage being exercised elsewhere by a new generation. Feeling excluded by more usual measures like achievement or talent, they've taken to using social taboos…
I don't understand your comment. Do I need to know something about Paul Straw that isn't included in the article, or have I just missed the point?
I'm wondering the same thing, tbqh. Is there something I don't know about this Paul Straw guy?
Re: Crockford
#45I'm a liberal with three daughters and I'm certainly pro-inclusion but this repulses me. We've grown as a society to over-indulge people with fragile personalities. Yuk.
Re: Crockford
#46It disappoints me to see how many folks on Hacker News have responded to this incident by condemning the entire concept of standards of conduct and the idea that the developer community should take the goal of inclusivity and sensitivity seriously. There is no question that our community too often can feel hostile to those who aren't white hetero men, and that is a real problem. On the other hand, there is no questio…
> But creating a community that is comfortable for everyone is an inherently valuable goal. Well, I can never be comfortable in a community where I might have my reputation and/or career destroyed over a reference to testicles that some might deem inappropriate. The people doing this are vicious and hateful, and they need to be given a taste of their own medicine.
I agree: overzealous activism is a real problem when it makes people fearful of freely participating in public discourse.
I disagree that retaliation is a constructive response.
Re: Crockford
#47First they came for Brendan Eich and I did not speak out because I was pro gay marriage.
Then they came for Douglas Crockford and I did not speak out because I did not attend JavaScript conferences.
Then they came for me—and it did not matter because I am a C# programmer.
Re: Crockford
#48How come this story and the previous one have been penalized on HN despite the high number of upvotes? This story was published to HN only an hour ago but has gathered over 115 points, yet it has been relegated to page 2. The previous story [1] was published 14 hours ago and has over 540 points, yet is now to be found on page 4. If the algorithm was operating as usual then both stories would still be in the top half…
Would getting flagged bump it down? It's a shame people don't think this is a worthwhile conversation to be having.
Re: Crockford
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But creating a community that is comfortable for everyone is an inherently valuable goal. Well, I can never be comfortable in a community where I might have my reputation and/or career destroyed over a reference to testicles that some might deem inappropriate. The people doing this are vicious and hateful, and they need to be given a taste of their own medicine.
I agree: overzealous activism is a real problem when it makes people fearful of freely participating in public discourse. I disagree that retaliation is a constructive response.
If you know of a better way to check the growing power of these vicious hateful busybodies, I'd like to hear it.
They're like Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority when it was at the peak of its power, probably back in the 1980's. But they're more frightening, because they're able to accomplish with a few tweets and blog posts what took them many millions of dollars and a membership-based organization.
Re: Crockford
#50I'm a liberal with three daughters and I'm certainly pro-inclusion but this repulses me. We've grown as a society to over-indulge people with fragile personalities. Yuk.
I disagree about the notion that the attack on Crockford comes from "people with fragile personalities", this look to me more like advanced identity politics manipulated at a high level, definitely would take me 10'000 hours to master.