I love this quote: "the plural of anecdote is not data"
It's quite old and I like to say: If you think about it, it actually is.
Optimism
41–50 of 165 posts
Re: Optimism
#42Author here. Ask Me Anything.
Q: Given how often people misunderstand what "optimism" means in Seligman's work, why do you think he repurposed an existing word instead of inventing a new one?
A: I don't know, but if I had to guess, I'd say that he is a data-driven man, and some simple A/B testing revealed that people were more likely to read a book purporting to be about "Optimism," than something they'd never heard of.
Re: Optimism
#43>I LIVE WITH Depression The word 'depression' is so over used by everyone from a angry teenager, a new mom or a dying old man that it doesn't hold any meaning to me at all. I now mentally equate Depression with attention seeking self-importance. I feel absolutely no sympathy for anyone 'suffering from depression' these days because I've heard it so many times.
The term may be overused, but depression unfortunately does have a specific clinical meaning. Depression is not simply being sad. In fact, people suffering from depression often describe it less as sadness and more as feeling nothing at all. One of my favorite examples are these Hyperbole and Half posts (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-..., http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-par...).
This isn't a perfect test, but the linguistic cue to pick up on the difference between clinical depression and mere sadness is whether the person describes it in terms of temporary emotional state ("I'm so depressed") or something more permanent ("I live with depression").
Re: Optimism
#44>I LIVE WITH Depression The word 'depression' is so over used by everyone from a angry teenager, a new mom or a dying old man that it doesn't hold any meaning to me at all. I now mentally equate Depression with attention seeking self-importance. I feel absolutely no sympathy for anyone 'suffering from depression' these days because I've heard it so many times.
The term may be overused, but depression unfortunately does have a specific clinical meaning. Depression is not simply being sad. In fact, people suffering from depression often describe it less as sadness and more as feeling nothing at all. One of my favorite examples are these Hyperbole and Half posts ( http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-... , http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/d…
In the context of Seligman's work, it is interesting to note that you can't just ascribe everything difficult in your life to temporary things. A symptom of depression can absolutely be temporary, and part of managing depression is to recognize this. Depression itself, for many people, is effectively permanent, and part of managing depression is recognizing that as well.
So, thanks for a comment that seems quite germane to the talk!
Re: Optimism
#45>I LIVE WITH Depression The word 'depression' is so over used by everyone from a angry teenager, a new mom or a dying old man that it doesn't hold any meaning to me at all. I now mentally equate Depression with attention seeking self-importance. I feel absolutely no sympathy for anyone 'suffering from depression' these days because I've heard it so many times.
Do you feel no sympathy for the crippled because the term is often used to describe things other than literal disability?
thats a false analogy though, is it not? the word 'depression' here is not used as a metaphor like crippled. I am not talking about depression as in 'economic depression', I am talking about depression in terms of how the author is using it.
Re: Optimism
#46Certainly, an unbiased symmetrical appraisal should be the goal? If the premise is that the effects upon your past success are equally likely to be general or specific regardless of their sign, and any asymmetry between your appraisal of the specificity between positive and negative effects indicates bias, isn't either bias problematic? All the worst initiatives that have crashed and burned around me in my career, sm…
I agree with you that accuracy should be the goal, but Seligman doesn't. I read most of the book, he thinks that delusional optimism is good, because it will make you happier and more productive.
He's used his research to teach optimism to soldiers so that they are more effective. But perhaps it is appropriate for soldiers in the middle of a war to not feel super optimistic?
>If the premise is that the effects upon your past success are equally likely to be general or specific regardless of their sign
I don't know if that's a true premise. It's an empirical question. There's no fundamental reason why the universe should be even-handed.
I read a good portion of Learned Optimism a while back. I think it's a dangerous book to read for certain types of depressive personalities. Ironically, there's a reading of the book that reinforces pessimism.
Re: Optimism
#47>I LIVE WITH Depression The word 'depression' is so over used by everyone from a angry teenager, a new mom or a dying old man that it doesn't hold any meaning to me at all. I now mentally equate Depression with attention seeking self-importance. I feel absolutely no sympathy for anyone 'suffering from depression' these days because I've heard it so many times.
The entire point of the presentation was to talk about my journey to the place where I think this comment says far more about you than it does about me.
what does it tell about me?
>Those of you who have not had this affliction may question this
Do you think there are people out there who don't suffer from 'depression' ? Is depression not common to all of humanity?
>I have had many high points in my life, but I also have had many low points
Do you think there are people out there who believe they never had any 'low points' in their lives ?
Aren't you doing great injustice to people who need genuine (medical) help due to depression by lumping yourself with them just because you had 'low points' in your life?
Re: Optimism
#48Author here. Ask Me Anything.
No questions, really. Just wanted to thank you for your writing.
It must have been about 10 years ago that I spent a full night reading your ruby essays. It must have been the most engaging writing on programming I've seen.
Re: Optimism
#49Certainly, an unbiased symmetrical appraisal should be the goal? If the premise is that the effects upon your past success are equally likely to be general or specific regardless of their sign, and any asymmetry between your appraisal of the specificity between positive and negative effects indicates bias, isn't either bias problematic? All the worst initiatives that have crashed and burned around me in my career, sm…
I think the idea is to recognize which side of the coin you naturally or subconsciously tend to fall on, and to consciously apply an asymmetrical or biased force to correct for that. The author naturally struggles with pessimism, so his presentation and experiences are framed around forcibly developing more optimistic thought patterns. For the people you describe, perhaps the inverse should be applied (the same artic…
I've read Learned Optimism, Seligman at no point makes the recommendation that overly optimistic people should be less optimistic. He doesn't seem too concerned with accuracy, he just says that optimism will make you happier and more productive, so you should pursue it.
He comes very close to explicitly stating that mild optimistic self-delusion is good, because it will make you happier.
He acknowledges depressive realism, that is, the finding that depressed people make more accurate judgments in certain situations, but doesn't really address it.
Re: Optimism
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
The entire point of the presentation was to talk about my journey to the place where I think this comment says far more about you than it does about me.
what does it tell about me? >Those of you who have not had this affliction may question this Do you think there are people out there who don't suffer from 'depression' ? Is depression not common to all of humanity? >I have had many high points in my life, but I also have had many low points Do you think there are people out there who believe they never had any 'low points' in their lives ? Aren't you doing great inju…
Your statement is all about you, it's about your feelings. The fact that you feel compelled to make this statement again is about you, not me.
Now you make this follow-up, which I will summarize as "You're not special!" And again, this is actually about you, not me. You feel compelled to point this out. You feel some kind of discomfort with other people voicing their experience, and this propels you to tone police them.
That is entirely your bag, and I am not going to carry it for you.