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Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

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Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#41
post #13

Purely anecdotical, but most of the women with a STEM education or interest I've heard from had a strong visceral dislike for calculus and strong attraction towards algebra . And not in the US. And also including mathematics graduates. "I'd take any abstract algebra problem/work anytime, just keep differential equations of all kinds away from me" was smth I've heard once if memory serves well... And at at least in Eu…

The upsetting thing about DiffEq is that the way it is taught has nothing to do with the way it is practiced or used, either by mathematicians or engineers. Separable equations, for example, are the highest order of bullshit. Almost no interesting problems are separable. (Like, there are infinitely more inseparable than separable ones.)

The track that should really take over should be one where the student develops the intuition about what related rates of change mean, and then abandon the chicanery of these special-case tricks in favor of the numerical solution of DiffEqs and the evaluation of the quality of the solutions.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#42

The sad thing is there are already many well-researched strategies for improving the success of all students in calculus and significantly reducing any gaps between student groups. Things like: * Teaching the math in context instead of abstractly. See https://engineering-computer-science.wright.edu/research/eng... * Give students opportunities to learn from one another in groups, using techniques like peer instructio…

The study showed that the problem is not in performance, but in confidence levels. So the strategies that you mentioned won't solve the problem.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#43

After going through 7 or 8 advanced level math courses in college, I noticed there was a dissociation of interests between the teachers and many of their students (90% STEM). Mathematicians might be interested in math because they enjoy math purely for what it is: abstract and theoretical. However, many scientists and engineers just what to know where what they're learning might be useful or applied somewhere in thei…

I think you are on to something. I remember struggling in my math classes (Calculus 2 (Integral), Calculus 3 (Multivariable), and Differential Equations), but doing very well in the major courses that used the same math (Networks, Linear Systems, Electromagnetics, etc.). For me, presenting the math in the context of a concrete application made understanding the principles much easier.

> but doing very well in the major courses that used the same math

My school's EE department offered a few math classes (presumably because the EE professors were exasperated with the low level of understanding students were showing with important math concepts). The math classes I took from my Electrical Engineering professors were infinitely more valuable and interesting to me than the equivalent math classes I took from the Math department.

In my EE department math classes, I was encouraged to use any tools at my disposal to solve the problems (TI-89, Wolfram Alpha, Matlab, etc.), and the problems were always very real, so I knew exactly why I was learning what I was learning and how it applied to solving real problems.

In my Math department classes, we had to solve everything by hand, the professors were overly concerned with semantics, and the problems were often very abstract and hard to wrap your mind around.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#44
post #4

> The findings suggest that a major factor in women’s decisions to leave STEM paths after Calculus I have nothing to do with ability, but confidence in their ability. (Though this particular study did not examine students’ grades in the class, a 2015 paper about college math concluded that women outperform men in Calc I.) I don't understand. They have no confidence, yet they outperform the men? So, they take the clas…

Girls get better grades but don't do as well on tests. It's easy to see where the confidence gap comes from.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#45
If we care so much about the STEM gender gap, why not other majors as well?

http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor...

1) Health Professions (85% women): nursing assistant, veterinary assistant, dental assistant, etc.

2) Public Administration (82% women): social work, public policy, etc.

3) Education (79% women): pre-K, K-12, higher education, etc.

4) Psychology (77% women): cognitive psychology, clinical psychology, etc.

5) a majority of Biology degrees in 2012 (58%) were earned by women

These majors are dominated by women, many paying more than some of the other STEM majors. So why aren't we changing these as well to be more accommodating towards men?

More women than men graduate from college on average:

http://fortune.com/2013/03/27/boys-vs-girls-whats-behind-the...

Shouldn't we be figuring how how to change this to make it more equal?

My problem with all of these articles and the entire movement is that the goal isn't to make things equal, it's a power-grab to allow one group to completely dominate the other.

I'm waiting for someone to suggest we either get rid of Calculus as a requirement altogether or reduce it's difficulty to make it more 'fair'. This is exactly what has started happening in our military.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#46

There's a significant portion of tech jobs that don't require degrees, yet these jobs aren't being filled by women either. I would have dropped CS immediately if it required difficult math, as even simple math problems can take me a considerable amount of time to finish. But i've worked in tech my whole life. I guess my question is, do we really believe difficult college courses are the main thing supporting a STEM/t…

Most tech jobs requires college degrees though. Maybe in SF and NYC and HN we talk about how they're not relevant but out in the real world, outside of big cities I always see "B.S. in Computer Science or equivalent".

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#47

There's a significant portion of tech jobs that don't require degrees, yet these jobs aren't being filled by women either. I would have dropped CS immediately if it required difficult math, as even simple math problems can take me a considerable amount of time to finish. But i've worked in tech my whole life. I guess my question is, do we really believe difficult college courses are the main thing supporting a STEM/t…

[deleted]

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#48

If we care so much about the STEM gender gap, why not other majors as well? http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor... 1) Health Professions (85% women): nursing assistant, veterinary assistant, dental assistant, etc. 2) Public Administration (82% women): social work, public policy, etc. 3) Education (79% women): pre-K, K-12, higher education, etc. 4) Psychology (77% women): cognitive psychology,…

We don't care much about it because it's not politically incorrect for men to acknowledge that they're just not as into these things as women.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#49

If we care so much about the STEM gender gap, why not other majors as well? http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor... 1) Health Professions (85% women): nursing assistant, veterinary assistant, dental assistant, etc. 2) Public Administration (82% women): social work, public policy, etc. 3) Education (79% women): pre-K, K-12, higher education, etc. 4) Psychology (77% women): cognitive psychology,…

This is not uncommon in other aspects of the society as well. Harvard is facing a lawsuit that the school’s admissions policy discriminates against Asian Americans.

"the suit notes the findings of a study of seven top public and private colleges: “Asian Americans needed SAT scores that were about 140 points higher than white students. . . . [I]f a white student needed a 1320 SAT score to be admitted to one of these schools, an Asian American needed a 1460 SAT score to be admitted.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-misleading-lawsu...

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#50
>>“When women are leaving, it is because they don’t think they can do it – not because they can’t do it,” said study co-author Bailey Fosdick in a press release.

Very aptly put. It reminded me a quote by Henry Ford: "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right."

We must encourage the women (and also the men) entering STEM courses to persist even in case of initial difficulties.

Another point, which is not discussed in the article but is somewhat relevant in this discussion (although not directly addressing the gender gap, per se) is: the US school level math has become almost a joke, because it's been watered down so much in the names of various reforms and various (perceived) societal needs and thus it instills false and undue confidence amongst many university entering students. [1,2]

Such students when encounter a subject like Calculus-I in its full glory and depth, they naturally get frightened. Even if they somehow get past the Calc-I hurdle (e.g. after remedial coaching etc), they are not in a position to handle the cognitive load needed to sail through the entire STEM courses.

[1] http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematically_Correct

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