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Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

soledadpenades.com

41–50 of 375 posts

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#41

I went to ngconf this year and two of the talks that stood out to me were given by women. One was the angular materials talk / demo and it was amazing. The presenter was exuding tech prowess, I was blown away by how easy she made it look to make a dog adoption website. One of the best talks. The other was by the CEO of girl scouts giving a patronizing 5 minute talk about how we need all help women in tech succeed and…

Well, I don't think it's the goal of a CEO of a social organization to give a talk on tech issues. Their focus is on social issues, so I don't see this as a good example.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#42
post #28

Personal story time...I was at a recent conference, listening to men, women given talks. One of the women, in her talk, uses an interaction with her daughter as the framing narrative for the talk (imagine Socrates and Glaucon, only this woman and her daughter). Almost immediately, three guys to my right start making fun of the speaker, sotto voce, making all manner of little jokes to themselves, that are becoming inc…

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Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#43
I agree

Now for the counterpoint, there are a lot of people in the marginalized group that actually do look up to people that advertise their marginalization.

Everyone that doesn't advertise that they are a "woman in tech" or a "black executive" flies completely under the radar.

There are literally groups I've been invited to where people make lists of these inspirational characters, because they want to support their businesses more than others. And the people that never said "I'm a black female software engineer that got VC funding" never show up. People assume they don't exist, when the reality is that isn't what they wanted to be known for!

Any compromises?

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#44
post #23

I personally know several successful professional women who have a policy of refusing to belong to any women-only groups. Their reason is that in their experience such groups are populated by people seeking reassurance. The result is that they offer the "support" of lowered expectations. Which won't help you succeed. One also pointed out to me that if a group of men were to form a men's only business club, that would…

Digression: That's an old tired dead horse. When the minority organizes, somebody always calls 'double standard'. "They're racist/sexist too!" Forgetting these folks don't have the institutional power to harm others. Forgetting that the rest of the world is a de-facto mens/white/whatever club already. Lets just retreat to the ivory tower.

Forgetting these folks don't have the institutional power to harm others.

Really? I'd say an accusation from those groups can ruin a career.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#46

Diversity in tech will never work. You are going against reality if you think everyone has the same aptitude to be good at math/engineering. Look at the data below. SAT Math by race [1] : - Asian/Pacific Islander = 598 - White = 534 - Mexican American = 461 - Black = 429 SAT Math by gender [2] : - Men = 537 - Women = 503 [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 [2] http://www.fairtest.org/sat-race-gender-…

Even if the data you're pointing to was accurate and wasn't influenced by upbringing, they represent averages. Not everyone in each of those groups is going to have an aptitude for maths, but enough will.

Also, aptitude for mathematics and aptitude for tech aren't directly correlated, though there is likely to be some overlap.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#47
post #29

That sure sounds like what the tech industry always seems to prefer: walk the walk, not talk the talk; software, not slideware; etc. Be a strong tech woman and you don't have to advocate for them; your actions speak louder than words. Just ask Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

I think you may be missing the point of affirmative action to encourage more women/minorities in tech... Just ask Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

Are you using 'affirmative action' prescriptively here, because that term has a very specific and understood definition?

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#49
post #28

Personal story time...I was at a recent conference, listening to men, women given talks. One of the women, in her talk, uses an interaction with her daughter as the framing narrative for the talk (imagine Socrates and Glaucon, only this woman and her daughter). Almost immediately, three guys to my right start making fun of the speaker, sotto voce, making all manner of little jokes to themselves, that are becoming inc…

Wow I don't have anywhere near the empathy for those yokels mouthing off, that others seem to have. Real dipshits. No way they are innocently unthoughtful or unconsidered. They seem to have issues.

I don't blame them for personally considering, reflecting on it, and adopting a view of women that permits sexism. I think the culture is still deeply sexist. I think that's the default position. I think they were just aping the world around them, unthinkingly.

I do blame them for not paying attention to all the women in the world saying "look guys there is a problem that we are experiencing," but you know what? That's part of the sexist worldview again!

Dismiss the woman, she's just a hysterical baby, whatever, do anything but listen because you might be made temporarily uncomfortable as you realize you've been part of the problem, and need to change your thinking and behaviors if you want to make the world more just.

I fault them for being shallow, unthinking people, but that's a big part of the human condition. :/

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#50

Diversity in tech will never work. You are going against reality if you think everyone has the same aptitude to be good at math/engineering. Look at the data below. SAT Math by race [1] : - Asian/Pacific Islander = 598 - White = 534 - Mexican American = 461 - Black = 429 SAT Math by gender [2] : - Men = 537 - Women = 503 [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 [2] http://www.fairtest.org/sat-race-gender-…

Assume for a second these tests are valid ways to prove what you are trying to prove[1].

First, you can't simply reslice the data and think you have shown anything valid. Simpson's paradox and all that. It could be that women do better than men in all but one race, for example, and that race "brings the average down" to the point where the overall gender scores look like they do. In fact, if you look at the wikipedia article on simpson's paradox, it gives the great example of .. a gender bias study :)

Whoever is creating these numbers by confounding variables and grouping data from other studies is just making a mess of the original data :(

(This is sadly not uncommon, and happens a ton in race and crime statistics, etc. The folks who make the original data often go to great pains to explain their methodologies, etc, and then some random org just throws it all in excel so they can produce charts that support whatever, and acts like anything they do to the data makes it still valid)

Second, ignoring that serious issue for a second, The only thing this gives you is "a snapshot of the world today". This is a test of actual current performance trying to predict success, not trying to predict potential performance. The SAT gives no data on what innate ability is, nor does it try to. That means it can change, and you can improve the numbers.

[1] i'm pretty sure the main correlation the SAT shoots for, and succeeds at, is predicting whether folks will be "successful the first year of college". There are a number of studies that show this. There are also newer, but less studies, that show other predictors may be just as good.

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