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The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

theatlantic.com

41–50 of 57 posts

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#41

Looks like this is the core argument for why Pokemon Go is a tragedy: """Even Google couldn’t make Ingress work without reskinning it as Pokémon. And while Pokémon is popular and basically harmless, the alternating reality it offers is still that of a branded, licensed, kiddie cock-fighting fantasy.""" I think the real tragedy is that the author of this thing can't lighten up and enjoy something that is making all ki…

Personally I have no problem with stuff being corporate branded and/or juvenile but I am surprised that the cock-fighting element isn't mentioned more often in relation to Pokemon. Maybe it is because I have seen a little real life cock-fighting (and its horrifying) but I find that aspect quite repellent.

As far as i can tell, you're not required to fight. you can just run around and collect everything. I haven't played ingress in a while, but the only way i remember it was possible to advance was by blowing stuff up.

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#42
The real tragedy of Pokemon Go is that it's essentially a glorified Cow Clicker. The core gameplay (battling and leveling to strengthen your team, then using them to collect ever-stronger Pokemon) has been replaced with mindless swiping. Toss Pokeballs until one works, then move to a new spot and repeat ad infinitum.

This "game" had so much potential, but they removed all the gameplay!

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#43

Looks like this is the core argument for why Pokemon Go is a tragedy: """Even Google couldn’t make Ingress work without reskinning it as Pokémon. And while Pokémon is popular and basically harmless, the alternating reality it offers is still that of a branded, licensed, kiddie cock-fighting fantasy.""" I think the real tragedy is that the author of this thing can't lighten up and enjoy something that is making all ki…

Personally I have no problem with stuff being corporate branded and/or juvenile but I am surprised that the cock-fighting element isn't mentioned more often in relation to Pokemon. Maybe it is because I have seen a little real life cock-fighting (and its horrifying) but I find that aspect quite repellent.

Possibly because they actually cover this topic as one of the main quest lines in at least one of the games. They're pretty self-aware about it these days and the shows are big on morality and battling only when the Pokémon want to.

People definitely bring it up, but what are they meant to do? Collapse a media franchise worth many millions of dollars?

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#44

Well, from what I've seen, there would have been no other way for this app to be successful without piggybacking on the success of another company's obsessive fans. No other customer would put up with a game that is so badly made. From a developer's perspective, this app is a true disaster, with an amazing level of incompetence that permeates the entire launch. First, the servers have been going up and down like a yo…

This is a reskinned Ingress, with simpler game mechanics. Log the damn errors and make sure it doesn't happen again? Have you written software? That is the most simplistic advice in the world. By your thoughts, all software should have been updated in a few days to be bug free. Had an update from the App Store? You realize that is gated by Apple and that you have to submit the update and wait an indeterminate amount…

I'm surprised it's just an ingress reskin. There seem to be lots of issues with the networking code. For example forcing login when the server's are down. Why bother with the OAUTH when they know it's down? Many states seem to require server interaction to progress to the next state, which makes sense, but there ought to be a timeout to return to the map. Many many times the game isn't non-responsive, but dosn't appear hung... a little X to abandon the current state chain would make the game far more usable.

I haven't played ingress in a couple of years. if it was simply a reskin, they'd have avoided so many "the network is always available" errors.

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#45
Ian Bogost is a professional critic, so I think he'll exaggerate how he actually feels. He probably really likes the game and still thinks it's super cool.

Frank Lantz is a really positive guy overall, so again, I think his negativity overstates how he actually feels. His company Area/Code was not acquired for its location based games, and Area/Code never made a game where you look through a camera and see a thing superimposed in it. Suggesting Area/Code 'got there first,' as Ian does, is a bit of a stretch. Honestly, it's doubtful anyone at Niantic has actually played a single thing Area/Code has made, not even Drop7. Nobody would put a screenshot of Plundr in their pitch deck and say, "We're going to make the next big version of this." Besides, Plundr was never released as a public game anyway, so it would be absurd to compare this actual thing Pokemon Go to what is basically a design fiction.

But even if you allow that all these advertisement game footnotes are genuinely cited/used in Pokemon Go, you're forgetting that none of that really matters in gaming as an art form. The only person's opinion that really matters is the consumer's (and to a limited extend the Google Play Store editors and App Store editors). Players are less interested in who invented what concept. If you're going to reference the past, reference familiar control schemes (like nearly every console shooter references Halo) or properties (like, well, Pokemon). It's surprising that professors of games-as-art like Ian and Frank would seem to get this wrong.

People on this forum are probably most critical of the bugs, but again, none of that really matters. Other commenters have said it more succinctly: if you have something great, people will deal with its problems. Forget DeNA games (like one commenter noted); have you ever tried to play Minecraft on an iPhone? You're moving around your FPS head with your finger and using a virtual joystick, which is literally the most horrible control scheme for touch possible. Kids still deal with it, they really don't care.

Why are there people looking to assassinate Pokémon? I think the Niantic team was given multiple opportunities to do something unconventional, which basically never happens, especially never in any of the jobs of people on these forums. They're kind of rubbing in all your faces that you really don't have to be making elegant hierarchies and making the world a better place all day, if only someone trusted you to do something weird.

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be condescending, I wouldn't have ranted or cared if I didn't have a clue. Others are commenting on game mechanics, lack of features or use of AR, but I'm not a game dev so I don't care. This app crashes so much, it must be some really obvious exception they're not catching. I don't expect it to be bug free, but constantly crashing ? Since you're obviously such a pro, let me ask you: Would you release software…

> Apple doesn't have contigencies for top-tier developers and emergency updates? Huh. Thanks to the mysteries of Apple, sometimes your emergency update to fix a crashing bug takes several more days to get approved than the update that introduced the crash in the first place...

[deleted]

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#47

Looks like this is the core argument for why Pokemon Go is a tragedy: """Even Google couldn’t make Ingress work without reskinning it as Pokémon. And while Pokémon is popular and basically harmless, the alternating reality it offers is still that of a branded, licensed, kiddie cock-fighting fantasy.""" I think the real tragedy is that the author of this thing can't lighten up and enjoy something that is making all ki…

The core argument is actually give en passant in the following sentence: "[...]and even if location-based entertainment need not be serious and political[...]".

You know that's the real rub for the author.

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a reskinned Ingress, with simpler game mechanics. Log the damn errors and make sure it doesn't happen again? Have you written software? That is the most simplistic advice in the world. By your thoughts, all software should have been updated in a few days to be bug free. Had an update from the App Store? You realize that is gated by Apple and that you have to submit the update and wait an indeterminate amount…

> Have you written software? That is the most simplistic advice in the world. I think the above poster was using hyperbolic language to make their point. Niantic was founded by engineers from Google. It seems a bit ridiculous that with all the expertise and funding they have, they couldn't even provide a stable backend architecture. It's not that difficult to scale an api using Google's app engine or aws. >No caching…

> Niantic was founded by engineers from Google. It seems a bit ridiculous that with all the expertise and funding they have, they couldn't even provide a stable backend architecture. It's not that difficult to scale an api using Google's app engine or aws.

That's like saying "they have Google engineers, therefore they must have Google funding and they should be able to smart things out." AFAIK, Ingress was built on app engine, and had huge scaling issues.

> The app could at least cache some of the info of your pokemon as well as the locations of nearby stops and gyms. Then only the status of those gyms and nearby pokemon would need to be synchronized when you reopen it.

It's not clear how much faster that would be. The majority of the RPC time is probably due to network latency issues, not the amount of data being fetched. That said, without slapping a profiler on it, you can't tell either way.

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a reskinned Ingress, with simpler game mechanics. Log the damn errors and make sure it doesn't happen again? Have you written software? That is the most simplistic advice in the world. By your thoughts, all software should have been updated in a few days to be bug free. Had an update from the App Store? You realize that is gated by Apple and that you have to submit the update and wait an indeterminate amount…

Don't be condescending, I wouldn't have ranted or cared if I didn't have a clue. Others are commenting on game mechanics, lack of features or use of AR, but I'm not a game dev so I don't care. This app crashes so much, it must be some really obvious exception they're not catching. I don't expect it to be bug free, but constantly crashing ? Since you're obviously such a pro, let me ask you: Would you release software…

>Don't be condescending

Where was I condescending? I gave good answers to all your points.

>This app crashes so much, it must be some really obvious exception they're not catching.

Who's condescending now? "Since it breaks so much, sheesh, it should be really obvious how to fix it." Nothing is really obvious how to fix, if they knew how to fix it they already wood have

>I don't expect it to be bug free, but constantly crashing? Since you're obviously such a pro, let me ask you: Would you release software that crashes so often?

Inferiority complex much? I never said I was a pro. And releasing an obviously buggy product sometimes is tied to contractual agreements or marketing deals. Once you start a marketing blitz, you _need_to release something. Engineering is subordinate to actually, you know, making money.

>Apple doesn't have contigencies for top-tier developers and emergency updates? Huh.

Not for "top tier developers". Also emergency updates are generally only relate to when there are security or privacy concerns. Crashing doesn't bother them much, if it made it through their initial vetting process.

>Caching is a famously hard problem, but wiping the entire state and starting again for basic information that doesn't change is sloppy. Deltas and common sense helps here. Same thing for use of GPS and data.

You said yourself that the app is really buggy, and then you also want to introduce a level of caching on top of it? That will make it even buggier and harder to diagnose.

>So many people affected for no good reason.

Which lays credence to the fact that Niantic made the right balance between buggy software and shipping. Not many people would be affected if the game weren't popular despite its bugs and limitations, so shipping at this stage seems like the proper thing to do.

Re: The Tragedy of Pokémon Go: What it takes for good ideas to attract money

#50

Looks like this is the core argument for why Pokemon Go is a tragedy: """Even Google couldn’t make Ingress work without reskinning it as Pokémon. And while Pokémon is popular and basically harmless, the alternating reality it offers is still that of a branded, licensed, kiddie cock-fighting fantasy.""" I think the real tragedy is that the author of this thing can't lighten up and enjoy something that is making all ki…

Personally I have no problem with stuff being corporate branded and/or juvenile but I am surprised that the cock-fighting element isn't mentioned more often in relation to Pokemon. Maybe it is because I have seen a little real life cock-fighting (and its horrifying) but I find that aspect quite repellent.

So is gunning down other people. Fortunately, many people can separate games from reality and this lets all types of games, from Counter-Strike to Pokemon to the Total War series, to succeed.

I'm utterly convinced the average 13 year old can separate the concepts of fake monsters that disappear back inside their little round homes from the reality of two animals trapped in a small area fighting to the death.

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