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Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

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41–50 of 77 posts

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#41

What a tragic misnaming of a feature. I see this over and over again, people expect the "autopilot" to drive the car for them. Naming it something like "cruise-assist" or similar would remove so much confusion and expectation. It's a wonderful car, with great features and one terrible UX flaw in labeling a core feature.

I wouldn't say it's tragic, I'd say it's negligent misnaming. The people in charge surely were aware that some users would use it in way it shouldn't be used due to the expectations caused by its name. Some of the blame for these accidents is on them.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#42
>We can’t cut corners just because we want to rush a life-saving product to market.

But there's a huge difference between a self-driving car and a novel drug. These cars are using statistical learning mechanisms -- it is impossible to prove that the car will always function correctly.

>Yes, it could be that autonomous cars will save many more lives than they take. But “the ends justify the means” is a dangerous approach in ethics, capable of justifying any evil as long as the math worked out.

I mean, yeah, "the ends justify the means" is a dangerous approach. This is a strawman: allowing less than perfect algorithms to transport us a little less than safely (though safer than currently) is not an instance of "the ends justify the means." It's an instance of pragmatic rationality in response to a very real and very common danger.

>If torturing innocent people or infringing on other rights can deliver some greater good, we would (or should) be deeply troubled by the choice.

The author is using an analogy between torture or general rights-violations as an argument against driverless technology! How does this seem reasonable?

There's one question I have for the author: what and who's rights are being violated by driverless technology that are not already being violated by human driving?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#43
Tesla should not have advertised autopilot as something magic and close to autonomous car. Because it is just another advanced cruise control. Volvo, Mercedes and others have it too. Now they made it harder to everyone, to convince general public that robot cars are for good.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#44

Article argues, "autopilot could let people who are blind and disabled drive now, where they couldn't drive before. but they could never get killed in a car accident while driving before, so this is ethically questionable." Article's logic is dumber than a sack of hair.

The article is arguing for inaction in the Trolley Problem [1]. In short: You have a choice between saving five people and letting one other person die, or doing nothing and letting five people die. Which is a controversial position, but not stupid exactly. I would call it misguided, and certainly not a very utilitarian position. And given the options I personally would vote for the utilitarian answer: Save five peop…

But in this case inaction is really taking no action and having things progress along their natural course to autonomous cars. This is more like a trolley problem where the car is headed at one person but you can throw a switch to have 5 people die instead.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#45
post #36

I will never willingly get into a car that's being driven solely by a computer. full stop. That tesla driver was presumably warned to be alert and act accordingly as if he was driving... obviously he didn't and he paid a high price. I actually would welcome the day we have autonomous "self-driving cars" so I could tell it to go to the shop for service/inspection and drive itself back, but if I'm in the car I will alw…

One day we'll treat your insistence on driving your own car the way we would treat you insisting on celebratory gunfire today.

At some point computers will be safer drivers than human driven cars in every way. Are you going to insist on irrationally putting your fellow man in harms way at that point?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#46
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you similarly advocate that we should, right now, today, in real life policy, set up a program where we check people for matches to multiple people needing organs, and if one healthy person's organs can save the lives of 2+ people, murder that healthy person and take his/her organs?

No, because the risk of surgery and transplant, plus the initial health of the person needing the organ, means it's not 100% certain it will succeed. But leaving the organ in the original person will.

You should have stopped at No.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#47

One day my son will drive. Do I want for him to face a 1/10000 chance of being killed each year by a human driver? Or do I want for him to face a 1/20000 chance of being killed each year by an autonomous vehicle? I'll take option two, for him and for me. I don't give a damn about philosophical questions. And I don't give a damn if it's a different dice I'm rolling. The only reason I care much about this one death is…

The only problem is that the statistics can vary greatly as there are so many factors to consider. Car age/model, geographic area, roads driven, etc.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#48

Article argues, "autopilot could let people who are blind and disabled drive now, where they couldn't drive before. but they could never get killed in a car accident while driving before, so this is ethically questionable." Article's logic is dumber than a sack of hair.

The article is arguing for inaction in the Trolley Problem [1]. In short: You have a choice between saving five people and letting one other person die, or doing nothing and letting five people die. Which is a controversial position, but not stupid exactly. I would call it misguided, and certainly not a very utilitarian position. And given the options I personally would vote for the utilitarian answer: Save five peop…

I don't think this is correct.

Each day when we drive we assume a certain degree of risk and implicitly acknowledge that we may be hurt. We make the decision to put ourselves in danger, whereas in the trolley problem we are led to assume that all parties are not responsible for their present situation. This distinction may be very important: if all parties in the trolley problem had entered into a covenant acknowledging that they may be killed, would more people opt to kill the one and save the five?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is arguing for inaction in the Trolley Problem [1]. In short: You have a choice between saving five people and letting one other person die, or doing nothing and letting five people die. Which is a controversial position, but not stupid exactly. I would call it misguided, and certainly not a very utilitarian position. And given the options I personally would vote for the utilitarian answer: Save five peop…

Do you similarly advocate that we should, right now, today, in real life policy, set up a program where we check people for matches to multiple people needing organs, and if one healthy person's organs can save the lives of 2+ people, murder that healthy person and take his/her organs?

Kinda.

I think it would fail utterly in practice. The per-person incentives are all wrong. You're less likely to get picked if you ruin one of your kidneys, for example. "Donors" are going to be unwilling in general, and that will cause a lot of trouble and turmoil. Lots of protesting. Not to mention any abuse of the system would be kind of horrifying.

But the general idea of substituting "bad luck you got a disease" with "bad luck you lose the lottery", when there's only half as many lottery losers as there were disease losers... maybe that's not so bad. When it comes to trolley problems, you also have to imagine yourself on the track. Do nothing and there's a 5/6 chance you die. Throw the switch, and there's a 1/6 chance you die.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Crash: Why We Should Worry About a Single Death

#50

One day my son will drive. Do I want for him to face a 1/10000 chance of being killed each year by a human driver? Or do I want for him to face a 1/20000 chance of being killed each year by an autonomous vehicle? I'll take option two, for him and for me. I don't give a damn about philosophical questions. And I don't give a damn if it's a different dice I'm rolling. The only reason I care much about this one death is…

The only problem is that the statistics can vary greatly as there are so many factors to consider. Car age/model, geographic area, roads driven, etc.

How about this factor - 31% of all traffic-related deaths involve alcohol-impaired driving.
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