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A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

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Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#41

Post by MartinCron »

jrockway wrote: post #39

I'm pretty sure that people tip at, say, coffee shops because they don't want to put the change back into their pocket. When people buy coffee with credit cards, they don't tip. When they buy with cash, they tip with whatever coins are left over. (I was told once that this was rude, so I just stopped tipping for coffee all together. If I'm going to be rude, I might as well keep the money for myself.)

I think the notion is that the tip should more closely parallel good service, so if you get just $.08 back and drop that into the tip jar, what is the message being sent, that you just don't like carrying coins around?

After getting to know some people in coffee shops and how they do rely on tips, I've started tipping around $1 per drink unless something's really wrong with the place. I do that regardless of paying cash or credit.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#42

Post by Jeema3000 »

I think the main problem may actually be in not setting a price. If you don't specify any price whatsoever, people will be more reluctant to donate because they'll be worried that their donation will be perceived as too cheap, so instead they just choose to remain anonymous and donate nothing at all. On the other hand if you come right out and say 'even a dollar is a welcome contribution!', then who knows...maybe people will only donate a dollar, but maybe a lot more people will donate too...

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#43

Post by jrockway »

MartinCron wrote: post #41
jrockway wrote: post #39

I'm pretty sure that people tip at, say, coffee shops because they don't want to put the change back into their pocket. When people buy coffee with credit cards, they don't tip. When they buy with cash, they tip with whatever coins are left over. (I was told once that this was rude, so I just stopped tipping for coffee all together. If I'm going to be rude, I might as well keep the money for myself.)

I think the notion is that the tip should more closely parallel good service, so if you get just $.08 back and drop that into the tip jar, what is the message being sent, that you just don't like carrying coins around? After getting to know some people in coffee shops and how they do rely on tips, I've started tipping around $1 per drink unless something's really wrong with the place. I do that regardless of paying c…

These coffee shops should just charge a dollar more. I do not shop around for the best price on coffee. I want good coffee.

The time I was yelled at, btw, was for giving 3 quarters as a tip for a $3 cup of coffee. "It would have been more polite" to give a whole dollar, and not as change, but as a dollar bill, I was informed (by some other customer). OK, but I don't have another dollar bill, and I really don't care to carry around those three quarters...

I did try for a few days to have an extra dollar and tip with that (carefully saving up the change for use in wishing wells)... but nobody said thank you or anything, so I gave up. If I have to go to a lot of effort to give someone money and they don't care, eventually I am going to get tired of doing it. And I did. (Did one person ruin it for everyone? Yup.)

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#44

Post by timwiseman »

andrewmayne wrote: post #37
timwiseman wrote: post #34

The moment you put the donate button on your website you’re calling yourself a charity case. This line caught me. Yes, if you put a donate button you are drawing a parallel between yourself and a charity case if not outright calling yourself one. But if you put a tip button on it is a very different situation. That is more comparing yourself to say a skilled hairdresser (it comes to mind since my step mother is one)…

I hear you, but we all have a pretty good idea how to compensate hair dressers and waiters. We also agree that there's an implicit contract that tipping is part of the transaction. When was the last time you tipped the producers of your favorite television show?

An interesting comparison.

I've often been interested in how some things get chosen for tipping and other things not. I think one of the criteria is how convenient it is to actually tip. It would be hard to tip the producer of my favorite television show, effortless to tip my waittress. I think the other criteria is how personalized the experience is, in most things we tip for we are receiving a very personal close to one-one interaction.

But I think most blogs come closer to the waitress side than the television side. At least on blogs set up to receive them, it is relatively easy to tip (though I think it can and should become much easier in the future!). And the experience can be fairly specialized (I tend to read niche technical blogs rather than mainstream news ones), and fairly personal. After all, if I leave a comment on most blogs, I have a pretty good expectation that author will respond directly and intelligently to me. If I write a letter to the producers of a tv show, I might, if lucky, get a form letter and maybe a glossy photo of the cast back.

As to whether there is an "implicit contract" to tip bloggers, I think that particular piece of society is new enough that those rules are still being established.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#45

Post by anonjon »

The little donate buttons we were supposed to click on to support our favorite bands as we gave the finger to the RIAA never panned out. It turns out we really were just cheap bastards that didn’t want to pay for music after all.

This is tangential and potentially destructively off-topic, but when exactly did music become something that we all need to pay for?

It seems to me that historically music has been something that people have done in addition to whatever it is that they do for their day job. (You sing while you are doing chores or you sing and dance at the pub at night).

When did we become this grotesque soulless crippled race of humans? It seems that there has been a proliferation of a myth that you need specific musical talent (and anointment by a benefactor) to create music. Why is this? It clearly isn't true... If we are all such cheap bastards, why don't we make our own damn music and give the RIAA the finger in that way?

I almost feel like there is some sort of institutional loss of music from our culture that almost warrants 'music theft' and is the real reason that people have been so reluctant to pay for their albums. It is as if everyone can make music, but there is some societal obligation that forces the majority of us to believe that we can't.

(Bonus: Why guitar hero and not a guitar? The guitar is cheaper...)

But please, feel free to ignore. Something about that phrasing simply rubbed me the wrong way and I felt the need to rant.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#46

Post by lsc »

jrockway wrote: post #39

I'm pretty sure that people tip at, say, coffee shops because they don't want to put the change back into their pocket. When people buy coffee with credit cards, they don't tip. When they buy with cash, they tip with whatever coins are left over. (I was told once that this was rude, so I just stopped tipping for coffee all together. If I'm going to be rude, I might as well keep the money for myself.)

eh, I think people tip at min. wage places for two reasons:

1. to look generous/wealthy in front of peers (and to feel generous/wealthy)

2. in the hope that staff will be more friendly/helpful/ won't spit in your coffee.

I think you could apply 1 on line by letting people give you a name to credit publicly for the donation. (let people give you a name; some people don't want to see their real names online)

Applying 2 generally means implementing logins and some sort of 'freemium' model.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#47

Post by lsc »

jrockway wrote: post #43
MartinCron wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the notion is that the tip should more closely parallel good service, so if you get just $.08 back and drop that into the tip jar, what is the message being sent, that you just don't like carrying coins around? After getting to know some people in coffee shops and how they do rely on tips, I've started tipping around $1 per drink unless something's really wrong with the place. I do that regardless of paying c…

These coffee shops should just charge a dollar more. I do not shop around for the best price on coffee. I want good coffee. The time I was yelled at, btw, was for giving 3 quarters as a tip for a $3 cup of coffee. "It would have been more polite" to give a whole dollar, and not as change, but as a dollar bill, I was informed (by some other customer). OK, but I don't have another dollar bill, and I really don't care t…

now, I don't work retail myself, so I don't know for sure, but I imagine that it's pretty easy to turn the change into bills if that is what they want; I mean, they need the change anyhow, right? I mean, turning one denomination of currency into another is a large part of the job. and the register is right there, right? and .75 seems like a reasonably nice tip on a $3 item, especially if they aren't taking it to your table or what have you.

so, I guess, what credentials does that other customer have? E.G. why are you taking their seemingly unusual tipping advice seriously?

I mean, personally, I almost always dump the change in the tip jar, but if I like the place and the change seems like a small tip I drop in another buck. I guess I'm cheap 'cause I don't usually tip more than that at 'to go' type places.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#48

Post by lsc »

smanek wrote: post #32
almost wrote: post #26

"Makes the donation essentially cost free to the donor via tax deduction." You what now? Either the US tax system works in some very weird way or that doesn't make any sense.

Pretend I donate a hundred dollars to NPR. I get a tote, mug, and some other stuff that I might value (i.e., otherwise purchase) at $50, but is nominally valued at $10. I then get to deduct $90 from income on my tax return, and assuming I'm in a high tax bracket, I get to pay about $30 less in taxes. Hence, I effectively donated $20 - while the recipient effectively received $90. Not quite cost free, but not terrible…

yeah, you can save a lot of money cheating on taxes if you don't get audited... but I don't think NPR is selling a more effective means of cheating on your taxes.

I think that the mooch bait is much more about having a way to show off "I am a generous and wealthy person, and I gave to this worthy cause" much like tipping heavily when you take your co-workers out to lunch. I mean, I don't really need another bag.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#49

Post by jrockway »

lsc wrote: post #47
jrockway wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These coffee shops should just charge a dollar more. I do not shop around for the best price on coffee. I want good coffee. The time I was yelled at, btw, was for giving 3 quarters as a tip for a $3 cup of coffee. "It would have been more polite" to give a whole dollar, and not as change, but as a dollar bill, I was informed (by some other customer). OK, but I don't have another dollar bill, and I really don't care t…

now, I don't work retail myself, so I don't know for sure, but I imagine that it's pretty easy to turn the change into bills if that is what they want; I mean, they need the change anyhow, right? I mean, turning one denomination of currency into another is a large part of the job. and the register is right there, right? and .75 seems like a reasonably nice tip on a $3 item, especially if they aren't taking it to your…

what credentials does that other customer have? E.G. why are you taking their seemingly unusual tipping advice seriously?

Good question. I am pretty good at ignoring people online, but not so good at it in real life.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#50

Post by chipsy »

"Set your own price", on the other hand, seems to be a model with multiple success stories. It has the good vibes of donation, while also having the carrot of a specific item for sale at the other end.

Plus, you can use the data as a starting point for future pricing.

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