Live data from Hacker News

How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

arstechnica.com

41–48 of 48 posts

Re: How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

#41

Although I don't use Java much anymore (favoring Ruby, Typescript, Haskell, Clojure, etc.) Java used to be my world, including enterprise Java. Honest question: aren't there open source solutions for the best parts of Java Enterprise specs?

JBoss seems to work well enough. Er, Wildfly???

WildFly is the project formerly known as JBoss Application Server.

Re: How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

#42
post #40
post #5

It seems like no sane people would choose Oracle for a new project. Is that a company milking its legacy contracts and buy new legacy product until they can't follow fast enough? This kind of business model is a drag on the whole ecosystem, just like Microsoft as a monopoly stagnated the whole ecosystem until Linux broke out.

> no sane people would choose Oracle for a new project So what exactly would they choose instead for the role of high-quality relational DBMS (if DB2 for z/OS is not an option)?

Most of the large-company Oracle Enterprise DBAs I know switched to MySQL about 10 years ago.

Now that Postgres has built-in replication, it is also a serious candidate to replace Oracle.

Microsoft SQL Server is a great database, but with its new licensing terms, similar to Oracle Enterprise in pricing.

Re: How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

#43
post #31

So, then, best non-JVM alternate language for backend servers? Go? D? Haskell? Node (please, no)?

> So, then, best non-JVM alternate language for backend servers?

The vast, vast majority of 'backend servers' are written in C++. (Those that aren't are legacy that was written in C.)

P.S. Of course, for some people when they say 'backend' they really mean 'anything not Javascript'. In that case PHP is the world's most popular backend language, and that would be just silly.

P.P.S. The disconnect of the online discussion bubble with reality always shocks me. D? Go? Seriously?

Re: How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

#44
post #5

It seems like no sane people would choose Oracle for a new project. Is that a company milking its legacy contracts and buy new legacy product until they can't follow fast enough? This kind of business model is a drag on the whole ecosystem, just like Microsoft as a monopoly stagnated the whole ecosystem until Linux broke out.

Probably no small company would, but Oracle doesn't make its money on small companies. Oracle does provide benefits for Fortune 500s and the banking industry, where projects are not going to be replaced for a very long time - there's a lot of configurability and their products can be made to do almost anything you could possibly want, now and in 30 years.

These big companies don't like uncertainty in their IT platform though. And this apparent lack of commitment to Java EE without any communication could scare them away.

We can only speculate what's going on at Oracle. Some options come to mind: 1) the JCP is moving too slowly to keep up with the changing IT landscape 2) Oracle no longer sees benefit in standard APIs with competing implementations and interoperability. Maybe it's eyeing enviously Salesforces cloud lockin...

Re: How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably no small company would, but Oracle doesn't make its money on small companies. Oracle does provide benefits for Fortune 500s and the banking industry, where projects are not going to be replaced for a very long time - there's a lot of configurability and their products can be made to do almost anything you could possibly want, now and in 30 years.

These big companies don't like uncertainty in their IT platform though. And this apparent lack of commitment to Java EE without any communication could scare them away. We can only speculate what's going on at Oracle. Some options come to mind: 1) the JCP is moving too slowly to keep up with the changing IT landscape 2) Oracle no longer sees benefit in standard APIs with competing implementations and interoperability…

Why don't we just use the Hanlon's razor?

> Oracle's overall revenue was down, largely because of its shrinking "on premises" software sales

> So how did Oracle increase profit on revenue that shrank overall by about 1 percent? The company slashed the operating cost of performing software updates, license support, developing and supporting new hardware, and services—in other words, through layoffs

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/06/oracle...

So top management is in "cut all the corners, don't care about the future, we need our bonuses now" mode, that's it.

Re: How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

#46
post #40
post #5

It seems like no sane people would choose Oracle for a new project. Is that a company milking its legacy contracts and buy new legacy product until they can't follow fast enough? This kind of business model is a drag on the whole ecosystem, just like Microsoft as a monopoly stagnated the whole ecosystem until Linux broke out.

> no sane people would choose Oracle for a new project So what exactly would they choose instead for the role of high-quality relational DBMS (if DB2 for z/OS is not an option)?

PostgreSQL? I'm sure there are Oracle installations that would be difficult or impossible to replicate on PostgreSQL. But I'm also sure that the vast majority of databases would work fine under PostgreSQL. A "new project" in particular is unlikely to need anything that makes Oracle "special."

Re: How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

#47
post #46
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no sane people would choose Oracle for a new project So what exactly would they choose instead for the role of high-quality relational DBMS (if DB2 for z/OS is not an option)?

PostgreSQL? I'm sure there are Oracle installations that would be difficult or impossible to replicate on PostgreSQL. But I'm also sure that the vast majority of databases would work fine under PostgreSQL. A "new project" in particular is unlikely to need anything that makes Oracle "special."

I've emphasized high-quality part for the reason.

I agree the majority of cases where Oracle is used in small business segment is pretty good fit for PostgreSQL, especially considering the fact many of consulting shops who specialize in Oracle are willing to provide commercial support for PostgreSQL as well.

Re: How Oracle’s business as usual is threatening to kill Java

#48
Java EE was the child of a relationship between SUN and IBM. The latter contributed hugely. IBM and SUN were able to work with each other. IBM and Oracle less so.

IBM WAS used to be a key selling point for IBMs consulting force. But JEE skills and tools are now commodity and WAS is less critical to IBM. It is curious that IBM is investing these days into Swift also targeting servers (https://developer.ibm.com/swift/).

It looks to me at times that both parents are neglecting and considering abandoning the child in the long run.

Post reply on HN