Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

warisboring.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#41

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

sevenless wrote: post #31

The 21st century belongs to whichever country first ditches the mentality of preparing to refight WW2, and builds a robotic air and submarine force.

I agree entirely.

Drone swarms are the future. And a lot of the existing thinking about solving communications blockage is backwards, swarms in the future will be self reliant, only receiving "big picture" orders from command and allowed to carry those out.

The F-35 may be the last major manned aircraft to take to the skies. With drone swarms, it will be outnumbered, and won't have enough munitions aboard to take out a dozen or more drones.

This is tech already in active development at the normal research institutions and other major nations seem to have similar development programs.

The US might get a full life out of the F-35, but I doubt they'll build its successor.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#42

Post by alkonaut »

x5n1 wrote: post #3

So what. It's not as if the US government is fighting anyone with any real air capability. You could use Vietnam aircraft and still win against the threat.

> It's not as if the US government is fighting anyone with any real air capability.

The problem isn't air superiority (yet). Building a stealth aircaft isn't only about beating some enemy equivalent. The problem mainly, very simplified, is that advanced AA is getting better and more widespread at a faster rate than aircrafts are improving. In order to conduct operations in "denied airspace" you need a combination of stealth aircraft, drones, advanced standoff weapons etc that is becoming increasingly complex and expensive.

Advanced long-range anti air like S-300/400 and similar are becoming so accurate and so long range, that anyone who can field them can effectively deny enormous (country-sized) bits of airspace.

If not even 5th gen stealth aircraft are safe to fly in an airspace then the air superiority will require control of the ground. This changes the way the US can (or can't) project power abroad pretty significantly.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#43

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

DigitalJack wrote: post #40
saiya-jin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1945 if we ignore the little fact it's mostly russians who kicked hitler down, not sure if japanese were in same ballpark with their army

The sheer number of people Russia lost in WWII is staggering. If I recall correctly the number was around 25 Million. Russia deserves so much credit for the defeat of hitler, but you won't hear it in America very often.

America loves to forget that China and Russia were allies in WWII. Or at least Hollywood does.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#44

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

jacquesm wrote: post #12
mrweasel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Danish government have the same issue. The plan is to buy 27 F-35s, but that's not really enough for anything. They are suppose to replace 60 F-16s. Even if the F-35 is as good as it's claimed, and the Russians are coming, I think you'd be better of with twice the number of some less advanced planes.

Missiles and drones are a lot cheaper than piloted planes, and easier to replace.

And can be launched from much smaller sites which are harder to detect before conflict and destroy in the first minutes.

Airfields are the F-35A's biggest weakness.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#45

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

Laforet wrote: post #16
WalterBright wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to hit an unsophisticated target like that is come at them out of the sun. They won't see or hear you coming.

The problems is that the F-35's ground attack capacity is better suited to destory large hardened targets such as latest MBTs fielded by Russia and China, rather than the small, numerous and arguably unsophisticated technicals or the proverbial dude running with an RPG. It will cost several times more and does not work as well.

Frankly the 1963 B-52Hs are extremely effective at that mission. They can drop enough munitions to level a medium sized city WITHOUT nukes.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#46

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

jankey wrote: post #22
tomjen3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but the better planes are needed for deterrent.

That's what the F22 is for, no?

The F-22 is, even now, still projected to cost more per aircraft than the F-35. Plus the F-22 cannot be sold internationally for reasons that aren't entirely clear (something about secret technology), whereas the F-35 can.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#47

Post by rat87 »

kristopolous wrote: post #9
tomjen3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but the better planes are needed for deterrent.

If the money was used instead in financial vehicles for the adversarial countries in question, the created economic codependence would very likely be more effective than this plane

Peace is nice but I wouldn't count on a large amount of trade to end all wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion

> The Great Illusion is a book by Norman Angell, first published in the United Kingdom in 1909

> Angell argued that war between industrial countries was futile because conquest did not pay. J.D.B. Miller writes: "The 'Great Illusion' was that nations gained by armed confrontation, militarism, war, or conquest."[3] The economic interdependence between industrial countries meant that war would be economically harmful to all the countries involved. Moreover, if a conquering power confiscated property in the territory it seized, "the incentive to produce [of the local population] would be sapped and the conquered area be rendered worthless. Thus, the conquering power had to leave property in the hands of the local population while incurring the costs of conquest and occupation."[3]

...

He was partially right though

> Angell said that arms build-up, for example the naval race that was happening as he wrote the book in the early 1910s, was not going to secure peace. Instead, it would lead to increased insecurity and thus increase the likelihood of war.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#48

Post by sevenless »

saiya-jin wrote: post #34
MagnumOpus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about invading the US. It is about challenging their regional dominance. If the US isn't willing or able to commit to defending Japan, Taiwan or Philippines, then Mainland China will be happy to recreate a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere under CCP leadership and to claim the Pacific and Indian Ocean for itself. While that wouldn't hurt the average American in the short run, the long-term consequences…

considering how much evil was done by US in last 15 years worldwide and how many millions of innocents died/suffer daily just because of lust for money and power, i am perfectly happy with Chinese taking banner of world supreme power for next few decades. side-by-side comparison of last 20-30 years leaves US in shame. I have more trust in Chinese party leaders rather than joke US presidency had become, with all those…

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

No country's ever been a beacon of democracy and freedom, that's just propaganda. You will not get a world where unconstrained powerful nations do not act amorally. A better hope is that multilateral organizations like the UN and World Court gain more strength and legitimacy.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#49

Post by WalterBright »

13of40 wrote: post #39
WalterBright wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty hard to do a deflection shot against a target moving 500 mph that you have maybe a second or two to line up on.

They'd be going slower than that for a ground attack. Also, "In the Korean War, our Air Force lost 259 jet aircraft and 285 other aircraft to combined small arms and air defense fire, which is nearly five times as many aircraft that were lost in air-to-air combat. In South Vietnam, we lost 410 fixed-wing aircraft and 2,100 helicopters. In the Mideast War, 36 coalition aircraft were shot down by ground fire." [1]. [1]…

Sure, but the NK and NV armies did have good anti-aircraft setups, likely much more effective than relatively untrained fighters with a weapon designed to shoot at other people with.

Richthofen in WW1 was brought down by a single shot from a rifle, but that is widely considered to be a freak shot.

Nevertheless, you're right that it is never safe to get in range of small arms fire, hence the genesis of the A-10.

Re: F-35 Delays Mean US Marines Are Pulling Old F-18s Out of Desert Storage

#50

Post by WalterBright »

lmm wrote: post #37
WalterBright wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty hard to do a deflection shot against a target moving 500 mph that you have maybe a second or two to line up on.

Sure, but how many trucks can you field for the cost of one F-35? It only has to work one time out of a hundred, or even one in a thousand.

The main trouble with the F-35 is it is so expensive it can't be risked in actual combat.
Post reply on HN