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Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

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Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#41

Post by Natanael_L »

aianus wrote: post #39
nugget wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you can answer one persistent question I've had about Ethereum contracts. My understanding is that you can encode logic in the contract so that you and I can, for example, gamble on the outcome of the Superbowl and the contract ''knows'' to ask some trusted authority for the result of the game and then pay out accordingly. Isn't this only decentralized insofar as you and I both trust the trusted authority and t…

It's my understanding that the Augur project solves this issue by decentralizing the reporting. That is, individuals vote for which outcome is correct in proportion to their balance of 'reputation'. If an individual votes for the correct outcome (as determined by the majority of votes), they gain reputation, otherwise they lose it. Reputation is valuable because it entitles voters to a share of the platform fees. The…

Sounds like somebody can dump in money to skew all the reputation scores.

Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#42

Post by j1vms »

RangerScience wrote: post #40
nugget wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you can answer one persistent question I've had about Ethereum contracts. My understanding is that you can encode logic in the contract so that you and I can, for example, gamble on the outcome of the Superbowl and the contract ''knows'' to ask some trusted authority for the result of the game and then pay out accordingly. Isn't this only decentralized insofar as you and I both trust the trusted authority and t…

AFAIK, yes, that is an issue. But it's not like it's a completely new issue. Timely information alteration is a long-standing tradition commonly known as "conning", as in "conman" as in "confidence man". Under one perspective, the root of blockchain technology is a rigorous way to determine consensus reality. Ethereum is then an evolution on top of that - giving a good way to process that consensus reality. Theoretic…

Employing a form of statistical threshold on the information that is gathered before making a decision could probably help resolve a lot of the potential for gaming the system.

Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#43

Post by SkyMarshal »

TDL wrote: post #13
fit2rule wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cults and Software go hand in hand. Don't be so terrified of cults if you're just getting into software - they're important in this industry. Very little of any import actually gets done without them ... and despite what you may think, the cult model is very useful when it comes to software development. Without a stable individual around which to rally, technology wheels spin and spin. However, with a cult figure mak…

"There are many, many positive software cults in our world today." Care to name some? I don't believe cultivating religious fervor over anything and rejecting information that disconfirms or challenges your beliefs as a positive thing.

Peter Thiel on how to run your startup like a cult: http://www.wired.com/2014/09/run-startup-like-cult-heres/

Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#44

Post by dang »

brighton36 wrote: post #30

He's the uri geller of cryptocurrency

Personal attacks are not welcome on Hacker News, nor are unsubstantive comments (of which you've unfortunately posted quite a few). Please (re)-read the site guidelines and post civilly and substantively, or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11896138 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#46

Post by DennisP »

natrius wrote: post #24
erikpukinskis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Ethereum, maybe a little of both. The plan is to create an entirely new form of social organization. I'm not making any claims about the likelihood of success, but their vision is wholesale replacement of capitalism and democracy among other things. There are some cultlike aspects to that. It is a form of abandonment of your friends and family. Since it's not yet realized, it requires some blind faith…

The decentralization vision does not require blind faith in Vitalik. The tools are already available. It's up to developers to pick them up and use them. Solving the scalability problem and moving to proof-of-stake requires some faith in Vitalik, but that's only if you care about the value of ether, Ethereum's currency. I hold ether, but if Ethereum fails to solve these problems, someone else will solve them and I wi…

And the scalability/PoS project has a team of several researchers. The official PoS lead is actually Vlad Zamfir.

Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#47

Post by aianus »

Natanael_L wrote: post #41
aianus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my understanding that the Augur project solves this issue by decentralizing the reporting. That is, individuals vote for which outcome is correct in proportion to their balance of 'reputation'. If an individual votes for the correct outcome (as determined by the majority of votes), they gain reputation, otherwise they lose it. Reputation is valuable because it entitles voters to a share of the platform fees. The…

Sounds like somebody can dump in money to skew all the reputation scores.

As in buying a lot of REP and faking an outcome?

You could do that but the idea is that the hit to your REP value from screwing people over will be greater than any illicit profits you may gain.

Similar to why your drug dealer doesn't just point a gun at you, take your cash, and keep the drugs; he can make more money being an honest long-term dealer to you.

Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#48

Post by phodo »

nugget wrote: post #36
aianus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Ethereum has the potential to be the BitTorrent to Bitcoin's Napster. A lot of the killer Bitcoin apps (gambling, drugs, etc.) make it too easy for law enforcement or site operators to steal everyone's money due to their centralization. It's a long shot, but if Ethereum gets really big really fast it's going to be much, much harder to shut down these apps.

Maybe you can answer one persistent question I've had about Ethereum contracts. My understanding is that you can encode logic in the contract so that you and I can, for example, gamble on the outcome of the Superbowl and the contract ''knows'' to ask some trusted authority for the result of the game and then pay out accordingly. Isn't this only decentralized insofar as you and I both trust the trusted authority and t…

That is insightful and is the concept of an 'oracle'. There is a spectrum of techniques to address having a trusted, tamperproof oracle... Some better than others, eg checking on multiple public sources and triangulating their results to more robust voting systems. I haven't run across one that is perfect, though. I believe this will get addressed over time.

Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#49

Post by fit2rule »

pigeons wrote: post #21
fit2rule wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cult of Linus. The Cult of RMS. The Cult of Carmack. The Cult of antirez. The Cult of Pike. Cult, definition: ... (religious definition skipped) ... 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

Cult of DJB

Yup. Great example.

Re: Profile of Vitalik Buterin and Ethereum

#50

Post by erikpukinskis »

natrius wrote: post #24
erikpukinskis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Ethereum, maybe a little of both. The plan is to create an entirely new form of social organization. I'm not making any claims about the likelihood of success, but their vision is wholesale replacement of capitalism and democracy among other things. There are some cultlike aspects to that. It is a form of abandonment of your friends and family. Since it's not yet realized, it requires some blind faith…

The decentralization vision does not require blind faith in Vitalik. The tools are already available. It's up to developers to pick them up and use them. Solving the scalability problem and moving to proof-of-stake requires some faith in Vitalik, but that's only if you care about the value of ether, Ethereum's currency. I hold ether, but if Ethereum fails to solve these problems, someone else will solve them and I wi…

To be clear, I love Ethereum and I think it will be a big part of the future.

But you seem to agree with me that there is some uncertainty there. We don't know if Ethereum will become the robust future-proof platform that it aspires to be. We also don't know if the problems it solves are really a critical part of the decentralized challenge or if it's bikeshedding. If you are making plans based on specific answers to those questions, your participation involves some degree of faith.

It sounds like you aren't personally relying on those answers, and you can afford to wait it out. That's great. For you it's just a neat technology then, not a cult.

I am impatient about social change, as my friends are in pain, so some faith would be required for me to invest time in the social vision of Ethereum today.

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