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Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

cbc.ca

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Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#41

Post by stormbrew »

ende wrote: post #13
stormbrew wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking specifically about Quebec here? This kind of thing varies a lot by jurisdiction, but in many jurisdictions the high costs for a plate are not paid to the government, but paid on a grey market to a prior owner, with the fee for registration being nominal except for the fact that no one gets to register any more. In many cities (including mine), people own plates as a retirement investment and are fight…

The payment to the government is irrelevant. The point is that the government artificially restricts the number of occupational licenses.

I agree that it's not relevant who the wasted money goes to to the systemic effects, but it certainly implies a very different motive to say the government is taking that fee.

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#42

Post by koblas »

Was talking to a few folks in both Alberta and Quebec and they mentioned that they felt that the Taxi drivers were really run by organized crime. Since they (including a few drivers) felt that there was lots of favoritizism and back room dealings with contracts over who could and couldn't service airports etc. Does anybody know if there is any basis for this view?

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#43

Post by wyck »

koblas wrote: post #42

Was talking to a few folks in both Alberta and Quebec and they mentioned that they felt that the Taxi drivers were really run by organized crime. Since they (including a few drivers) felt that there was lots of favoritizism and back room dealings with contracts over who could and couldn't service airports etc. Does anybody know if there is any basis for this view?

I don't think there is a basis for this. Taxi's are very regulated in Quebec, the taxi drivers themselves do the intimidating via their union and on the streets. The reality is that they have to pay large licenses, regular inspection fees, past several tests , have ATM machines in the car, etc, while the uber drivers don't.

If you want to see mob involvement related to cars you want to look at the towing industry, but generally they stick to the money, which is construction.

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#44

Post by ddddddddq »

g4nt1 wrote: post #30
JoshTriplett wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the supply is artificially limited by the government; there's no free market involved. That $200k is paid to the government. (The claimed rationale for limiting the number of taxis is to reduce traffic. I would suspect the actual rationale is to favor the existing taxi businesses that already have licenses and don't want competition.)

The 200K is not paid to the government but to the previous owner of the plate. So yes the price is dictated by demande/offer but you are true that by restricting the offer the are artificially raising the price of the plate. When Uber started operating in Quebec the price of a plate in Montreal dropper to around 160K. That was the major point of dispute, since taxi drivers usually get loans to buy these plates knowin…

> That was the major point of dispute, since taxi drivers usually get loans to buy these plates knowing that they can re-sell then anytime. Uber changed that.

So fundamentally their complaint is: "My investment carried a risk"

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#45

Post by wyck »

I talk about Uber all the time when I'm in a taxi in Montreal, to be honest it's really not fair for them. Why should they have to pay a expensive regulation licenses, maintenance check-ups on the books, past several tests including knowing your driving area streets/history/etc, have ATM machine in the car with paper print out's, regulated machine for travel to cost ratio, yet an Uber driver can circumvent all this?

The real fear for cab drivers seem to be self driving cars even more than Uber.

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#46

Post by refurb »

koblas wrote: post #42

Was talking to a few folks in both Alberta and Quebec and they mentioned that they felt that the Taxi drivers were really run by organized crime. Since they (including a few drivers) felt that there was lots of favoritizism and back room dealings with contracts over who could and couldn't service airports etc. Does anybody know if there is any basis for this view?

There was a great article about the corruption in snow removal in Quebec. People getting beat up for bidding on the wrong contracts. Wouldn't surprise me if that extended to the taxi business!

Not quite organized crime, but not far from it!

https://www.vice.com/read/of-course-there-is-a-snow-removal-...

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#47

Post by mgbmtl »

koblas wrote: post #42

Was talking to a few folks in both Alberta and Quebec and they mentioned that they felt that the Taxi drivers were really run by organized crime. Since they (including a few drivers) felt that there was lots of favoritizism and back room dealings with contracts over who could and couldn't service airports etc. Does anybody know if there is any basis for this view?

Maybe some companies, but there are a lot of different taxi companies in Montreal, many of which are worked-owned coops or an umbrella of freelancers.

There are also companies going after Uber's model but with strong ethics, such as Teo, which seems to be widely praised (good app, fully electric cars, good conditions for drivers, wifi inside the cabs).

My main annoyance against the taxi industry is its lobby, which is always against any sort of change in the transportation industry, such as new train lines (airport train or bus line), bike/bixi ride-share, etc. Taxis and Uber-type systems offer more transport solutions that reduce the requirement of having a car. I would love to get rid of my car, but it's not viable in Montreal (I bike to work, use the car mostly on weekends and Communauto requires me to do too much planning).

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#48

Post by SFJulie »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #33
SFJulie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automation will work if and only if car operator can make themselves non liable for any accident resulting from bugs. Accident are stuffs that cannot be predicted. A bug is something that can be avoided. As far as I am concerned, 99% of the software industry is not able to write critical software that is able to handle with a correct costs the case of failures and/or "abnormal" behaviors. Software will fail. It will…

Accident are stuffs that cannot be predicted. Car insurance companies do this on a daily basis and make consistent and reliable profits betting on the outcomes.

Well, they have been involved in quite a few regulation tricks to not pay their due or cheat on customers (especially on forgetting to give life insurance prime). I would not take insurance company as an example of mathematical honest success in predicting the future.

And, also, I would point out that their prediction are based on opacity and it is hard to audit their reasoning. I talked with some of them, and their mathematical reasoning are flawed towards using linear equations to predict non linear phenomenon. And when I ask them how it can work, they had no explanations, just "recipies everyone use". So well, I do not trust them.

What you cannot explain simply you do not understand.

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#49

Post by yjnut »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #38
MarkMc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, Uber demonstrates that regulation is generally harmful and typically rips off consumers, but doesn't that still allow a few worthy regulations. Say, drivers cannot have a recent conviction for a violent offence?

Uber and Lyft already require this in the US, according to a quick google search. http://www.idrivewithuber.com/uber-driver-requirements/ https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/213585758-Requiremen... In India, Uber now imposes a background check that drastically exceeds the regulatory minimum (police-issued "character certificate", approx an 8k bribe). http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-09/uber-drive...…

It is outrageously silly to compare Uber's self-regulation in an environment where it is surrounded by the constant threat of more intrusive government regulation; to it's hypothetical behavior in a hypothetical world where government regulation was not on the table.

One of the MAJOR positive spillover effects from government regulation is that companies self-police themselves more effectively, as part of their attempt to make sure they remain officially unregulated.

Re: Quebec passes law to regulate Uber

#50

Post by psb217 »

mgbmtl wrote: post #47
koblas wrote: post #42

Was talking to a few folks in both Alberta and Quebec and they mentioned that they felt that the Taxi drivers were really run by organized crime. Since they (including a few drivers) felt that there was lots of favoritizism and back room dealings with contracts over who could and couldn't service airports etc. Does anybody know if there is any basis for this view?

Maybe some companies, but there are a lot of different taxi companies in Montreal, many of which are worked-owned coops or an umbrella of freelancers. There are also companies going after Uber's model but with strong ethics, such as Teo, which seems to be widely praised (good app, fully electric cars, good conditions for drivers, wifi inside the cabs). My main annoyance against the taxi industry is its lobby, which i…

I've been living in Montreal for ~7 years without a car. It's not difficult. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I would find a car burdensome.
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