Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I rear-ended someone in traffic Emergency braking safety system didn't kick in?
I have an early car, without the necessary sensors.
[deleted]
Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
41–50 of 175 posts
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#42I'm all for electric vehicles, but there are a few things that have bothered me about its mass adoption. Right now, electrics comprise a tiny part of the automobile market share. Yet Tesla is already running into supply issues, particularly with lithium as there are only 3 companies in the world that do industrial-scale lithium mining, that too in a handful of mines around the world. Secondly, I suppose we're current…
This is a real problem and a real concern. An EV essentially is a car with a very expensive fuel tank (the battery), made out of specific materials and properties. While it is efficient in energy use and can make use of fungible electricity, lithium is rare, limited to specific areas of concentration, and can (as any material) only be partially recycled. There's lithium elsewhere on Earth, or more precisely, in seawa…
There's someone in Halifax researching Sodium Batteries, which would be a fair bit easier to find than lithium, though less effective.
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#43I'm all for electric vehicles, but there are a few things that have bothered me about its mass adoption. Right now, electrics comprise a tiny part of the automobile market share. Yet Tesla is already running into supply issues, particularly with lithium as there are only 3 companies in the world that do industrial-scale lithium mining, that too in a handful of mines around the world. Secondly, I suppose we're current…
> Right now, electrics comprise a tiny part of the automobile market share. Yet Tesla is already running into supply issues, particularly with lithium as there are only 3 companies in the world that do industrial-scale lithium mining, that too in a handful of mines around the world.
Why would any consumer have to care at all about this? If it really becomes a problem the price of EVs will go up and then people won't buy them. You're letting details you needn't worry about influence your possible purchase now? That makes no sense. Do you worry about how Ford is going to source their parts when they run into supply chain issues (which they do)? Do you worry about any other company's supply chain issues? You are repeating anti-EV FUD.
> I suppose we're currently in the honeymoon period for electrics. But what will happen 5-8 years down the line, when all the early mainstream adopters of electrics will have to replace their batteries? Is it feasible to recycle all those batteries?
A) All manufacturers have buyback/replacement programs in place that they have to uphold with the customer. Again, you needn't worry about the details as a consumer beyond that.
B) If you really insist on worrying about the details, look at some actual historic data instead of FUD; the price of EV batteries has been dropping dramatically over the last 10 years. All real signs (the fact that manufacturers keep opening new plants and increasing capacity, and that there is no real shortage of Lithium in the world despite the "3 companies" baloney) point to them continuing to drop.
The only REAL reason to consider not buying an EV right now is the dramatic pace at which they are improving. But to me that just points to leasing instead of buying one.
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder how slate got the idea that they're not "expensive". Maybe the prices have been manipulated independently of supply.
Battery costs are five years ahead of the predicted price curve: http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/26/ev-battery-costs-already... GM says li-ion pack costs for its Bolt are ~$145/kWh, predicting $100/kWh by 2021: http://www.hybridcars.com/gm-ev-battery-cells-down-to-145kwh... Tesla confirms its costs are below $190/kWh: https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/battery-cost-bel... Batteries are following the same pr…
Nitpick: the unit you mean is kWh, not kW, which is a different, though related, unit of merit for batteries. (kWh measures capacity; kW measures output.)
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#45I'm all for electric vehicles, but there are a few things that have bothered me about its mass adoption. Right now, electrics comprise a tiny part of the automobile market share. Yet Tesla is already running into supply issues, particularly with lithium as there are only 3 companies in the world that do industrial-scale lithium mining, that too in a handful of mines around the world. Secondly, I suppose we're current…
This is a real problem and a real concern. An EV essentially is a car with a very expensive fuel tank (the battery), made out of specific materials and properties. While it is efficient in energy use and can make use of fungible electricity, lithium is rare, limited to specific areas of concentration, and can (as any material) only be partially recycled. There's lithium elsewhere on Earth, or more precisely, in seawa…
processing seawater for minerals (uranium is another which might be extracted) is expensive in the sense of requiring a lot of energy (arguably the ultimate definition of cost is energy requirements).
But it has to be done only once when the battery is produced, right?
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Battery costs are five years ahead of the predicted price curve: http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/26/ev-battery-costs-already... GM says li-ion pack costs for its Bolt are ~$145/kWh, predicting $100/kWh by 2021: http://www.hybridcars.com/gm-ev-battery-cells-down-to-145kwh... Tesla confirms its costs are below $190/kWh: https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/battery-cost-bel... Batteries are following the same pr…
Nitpick: the unit you mean is kWh, not kW, which is a different, though related, unit of merit for batteries. (kWh measures capacity; kW measures output.)
Thanks for the correction! Comment updated!
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#47I'm all for electric vehicles, but there are a few things that have bothered me about its mass adoption. Right now, electrics comprise a tiny part of the automobile market share. Yet Tesla is already running into supply issues, particularly with lithium as there are only 3 companies in the world that do industrial-scale lithium mining, that too in a handful of mines around the world. Secondly, I suppose we're current…
This is a real problem and a real concern. An EV essentially is a car with a very expensive fuel tank (the battery), made out of specific materials and properties. While it is efficient in energy use and can make use of fungible electricity, lithium is rare, limited to specific areas of concentration, and can (as any material) only be partially recycled. There's lithium elsewhere on Earth, or more precisely, in seawa…
[deleted]
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's too bad about the Volt. I drove one a few times... It isn't a terrible car at all, and bypasses the gaping flaws in a pure electric vehicle.
What do you see as the 'gaping flaws' of a pure electric vehicle? I would never want a hybrid, as I would optimize for either an ICE or EV but there doesn't seem to be space in a consumer vehicle to have a workable hybrid that is better than either of its pureplay counterparts.
A few:
- Road trips. Range needs to accommodate the 95th percentile trip, not the mean.
- Apartment living
- Unknown depreciation curve
The other inconvenient fact is that you need to drive a lot for the TCO of an electric car to be lower than a similar gasoline car.
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's too bad about the Volt. I drove one a few times... It isn't a terrible car at all, and bypasses the gaping flaws in a pure electric vehicle.
What's too bad about the Volt? I may be about to buy one of the new ones. The 2016 model has better electric range and looks better too.
It doesn't seem to have done too well in the market and gets ragged on a lot. IMO a good concept.
Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries
#50I'm all for electric vehicles, but there are a few things that have bothered me about its mass adoption. Right now, electrics comprise a tiny part of the automobile market share. Yet Tesla is already running into supply issues, particularly with lithium as there are only 3 companies in the world that do industrial-scale lithium mining, that too in a handful of mines around the world. Secondly, I suppose we're current…
> Right now, electrics comprise a tiny part of the automobile market share. Yet Tesla is already running into supply issues, particularly with lithium as there are only 3 companies in the world that do industrial-scale lithium mining, that too in a handful of mines around the world. Why would any consumer have to care at all about this? If it really becomes a problem the price of EVs will go up and then people won't…
Consumers should absolutely consider whether we are on a sustainable growth curve. How common will electric charging stations be if it turns out that EVs can't rise above 10% of the total car market? If hydrogen-powered cars all of a sudden became the norm, EV drivers will be much less well-served than if EV sales continue to scale (as most EV purchasers probably assume they will).