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How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

theatlantic.com

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Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#41

Post by gaius »

marshallp wrote: post #35
gaius wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

immigration policies that promote population growth It's more subtle than that, and to a certain extent it's zero-sum. Countries compete to attract skilled immigrants, and there is a finite supply of doctors, engineers etc willing to relocate per year. As we see in the UK there is a much larger supply of people who simply shop around for the best welfare then claim "asylum". The brutal truth is that it's in no countr…

I find this 'welfare scrounger' outrage coming from britain laughable. Britain has the least generous welfare system of any rich european country, yet you get the most compaints from there.

It's because we're the most accomodating. Seriously, try speaking to the Swedish or French government in anything other than the national language. Only the UK will automatically hire a translator. Generous welfare is no use if you can't claim it. That's the secret of most European countries.

Why do you think all those people already in a safe country, France, are trying to get from Sangatte to Dover? It's not "asylum" once you're already safe!

Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#42

Post by glymor »

marshallp wrote: post #35
gaius wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

immigration policies that promote population growth It's more subtle than that, and to a certain extent it's zero-sum. Countries compete to attract skilled immigrants, and there is a finite supply of doctors, engineers etc willing to relocate per year. As we see in the UK there is a much larger supply of people who simply shop around for the best welfare then claim "asylum". The brutal truth is that it's in no countr…

I find this 'welfare scrounger' outrage coming from britain laughable. Britain has the least generous welfare system of any rich european country, yet you get the most compaints from there.

France/Germany restricted entrance from the enlarged EU; whereas upper estimates of 500,000 new migrants entered the UK.

From an economic perspective the backlash has been undeserved:

broad agreement that immigration is likely to have reduced the natural rate of unemployment ... By 2006Q3, only 353/2328 applications for income support; 859/5154 applications for incoming based jobseekers allowance;

("The Impact of the Recent Migration from Eastern Europe on the UK Economy" Monetary Policy Committee, Bank of England.)

Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#43

Post by [deleted] »

marshallp wrote: post #35
gaius wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

immigration policies that promote population growth It's more subtle than that, and to a certain extent it's zero-sum. Countries compete to attract skilled immigrants, and there is a finite supply of doctors, engineers etc willing to relocate per year. As we see in the UK there is a much larger supply of people who simply shop around for the best welfare then claim "asylum". The brutal truth is that it's in no countr…

I find this 'welfare scrounger' outrage coming from britain laughable. Britain has the least generous welfare system of any rich european country, yet you get the most compaints from there.

[deleted]

Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#44

Post by tjgabbour »

gaius wrote: post #31
ojbyrne wrote: post #4

I'm old and generally pessimistic. But I've seen enough recessions to know that when you've read the seventeenth article about the never-ending bottom (as I did during the reagan era, during the early 90s when Germany and Japan were going to destroy the US economy, and post dotcom collapse), I can't help but think it's time that the pundits will all be contradicted on the upside. Just like they were on the downside.…

immigration policies that promote population growth It's more subtle than that, and to a certain extent it's zero-sum. Countries compete to attract skilled immigrants, and there is a finite supply of doctors, engineers etc willing to relocate per year. As we see in the UK there is a much larger supply of people who simply shop around for the best welfare then claim "asylum". The brutal truth is that it's in no countr…

I think countries often inflict these problems on themselves. For example, systematic unemployment/underemployment isn't a particularly natural phenomenon (above a minimal level when people shift workplaces and so on), but is a known consequence of certain economic systems and policies. These countries decide to pursue policies where idle hands aren't offered anything to do. Despite their desire to work.

Further, higher-level professions tend to have obstacles to decrease the supply of their practitioners.

Immigration problems are also often self-inflicted. France is in the news for having them, but clearly many immigrants came from countries they invaded. When France invaded, they sent soldiers who alter society through violence and intimidation; whereas immigrants typically want to achieve better lives for themselves and families, and ideally participate in a functional society.

Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#45

Post by [deleted] »

gaius wrote: post #31
ojbyrne wrote: post #4

I'm old and generally pessimistic. But I've seen enough recessions to know that when you've read the seventeenth article about the never-ending bottom (as I did during the reagan era, during the early 90s when Germany and Japan were going to destroy the US economy, and post dotcom collapse), I can't help but think it's time that the pundits will all be contradicted on the upside. Just like they were on the downside.…

immigration policies that promote population growth It's more subtle than that, and to a certain extent it's zero-sum. Countries compete to attract skilled immigrants, and there is a finite supply of doctors, engineers etc willing to relocate per year. As we see in the UK there is a much larger supply of people who simply shop around for the best welfare then claim "asylum". The brutal truth is that it's in no countr…

[deleted]

Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#46

Post by cpr »

The thing that has always amazed/disgusted me is how our education system trains people to be passive consumers, and to leave school "looking for a job", as if jobs somehow grew on trees and would eventually fall when ripe.

Until people learn from the cradle that they're not owed a job by anyone, but have to create value of some sort, either for someone else, or for themselves, we'll have this same sad situation.

Someone "stuck at home" is in the perfect situation to start creating value that other people are willing to pay for: mowing lawns, baking bread, making furniture/simple machines in their home workshop, using whatever raw materials and machinery their forebears have amassed and are freely available, but, most of all, using their brains and their willpower.

Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#47

Post by owinebarger »

hop wrote: post #26

If you are receiving unemployment, I can't think of a better time to start your own business. Great companies will be born out of this era that were bootstrapped all the way. I think frugality and a focus on the bottom line is a renewed theme. Even if you fail miserably you'll be light years ahead of everyone else.

You would think so, but in fact the unemployment "insurance" agencies of some (many?) states are overtly hostile to using your time to build a startup rather than unsuccessfully seeking a position as an employee.

In Connecticut, for example, the statutes say revenue from self-employment should offset unemployment benefits, but the state agency has chosen the highly creative interpretation of "revenue" to include potential capital gains your efforts represent, and the notional amount of salary you should be paying yourself for the work you do for your startup, including, say, writing a business plan.

It does seem like they are shooting themselves in the foot, but the unemployment "insurance" fund in CT is already living on debt.

Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#48

Post by techiferous »

louislouis wrote: post #37
marshallp wrote: post #36

It's the fault of the teacher's unions. 12 years of school gets you no employable skills. If they simply started teaching programming in grade 8 to everyone by grade 12 everyone would be employable (since there's an unlimited supply of programming jobs).

Programming jobs are not unlimited. There's just a big demand for programmers and lack of supply. If every wannabe musician/artist/celebrity wanted to be a coder we'd certainly feel the strain.

marshallp has a point. There is a limit to the demand for food; after a while, you are full. There is no hard limit to the demand for technology, because the value that technology adds is the ingenious solving of problems, and it seems that everyone always has problems.

Re: How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

#50

Post by asmithmd1 »

owinebarger wrote: post #47
hop wrote: post #26

If you are receiving unemployment, I can't think of a better time to start your own business. Great companies will be born out of this era that were bootstrapped all the way. I think frugality and a focus on the bottom line is a renewed theme. Even if you fail miserably you'll be light years ahead of everyone else.

You would think so, but in fact the unemployment "insurance" agencies of some (many?) states are overtly hostile to using your time to build a startup rather than unsuccessfully seeking a position as an employee. In Connecticut, for example, the statutes say revenue from self-employment should offset unemployment benefits, but the state agency has chosen the highly creative interpretation of "revenue" to include pote…

That does not make any sense.

Maybe there is a way to make the snake eat it's tail. After your payroll paycheck bounces call up the state employer regulators and see if they will make your paycheck whole.

Then post the whole thing to the web as a performance artwork

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