This goes a lot deeper than the article seems to suggest. There was an quiz on spiegel a while back that went in depth into the hidden meanings that only HR experts can extract from these letters ( http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/jobundberuf/arbeitszeugnis-... ). My wife who works in HR managed to get them all correct, but I would have missed a lot of the explicit meanings inside the numerous formulations. In genera…
As a non-German, I'm curious how these compare to this (humorous) list of ambiguous recommendations: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/humor/ambiguous-recommen.... The German examples in the original article seem to be merely euphemistic. Are the ones in your article ambiguous as well?
I prefer the reference letter system over the personal references system popular in the US because the letter decouples you from former employers. They don't get calls every time you're in talks with a recruiter. The amount of information that's passed along is standardized (even if it's a weird standard, but see below) and better controlled. It's possible to request interim reports, and when doing it semi-regularly…
One other oddity in the German system that doesn't side to be mentioned in these comments, is that every CV or "Lebenslauf" requires a professional looking headshot photo to be attached. I'm not sure if it is an absolute requirement, out just a general expectation, but I've always found that very strange.
This goes a lot deeper than the article seems to suggest. There was an quiz on spiegel a while back that went in depth into the hidden meanings that only HR experts can extract from these letters ( http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/jobundberuf/arbeitszeugnis-... ). My wife who works in HR managed to get them all correct, but I would have missed a lot of the explicit meanings inside the numerous formulations. In genera…
As a non-German, I'm curious how these compare to this (humorous) list of ambiguous recommendations: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/humor/ambiguous-recommen... . The German examples in the original article seem to be merely euphemistic. Are the ones in your article ambiguous as well?
This reminds me of reporting in the UK. UK libel law is notoriously loose and favors the plaintiff overwhelmingly, so you can get yourself in heaps of trouble by saying anything negative about anyone, true or not. So journalists use code-phrases; for example "a man about town" may mean a philanderer, "a fulsome spirit" may mean an alcoholic, "an engaging storyteller" may mean a pathological liar, etc.
I might have given the wrong impression: at my current job in France, I'm hired by a very corporate guy who spent years working at the State owned energy company, and he required some telephone references and some tests at an external head hunter. My guess is that corporate France still likes to use the Downton Abbey method, but at previous startups it was more about resumé, interviews and actual written code.
Contacting former employers or talking about your former employees to a prospective employer is illegal in France. Although it's hard to prove, when they don't ask you directly to give contacts away.
Contacting former employers or talking about your former employees to a prospective employer is illegal in France.
The law is different here in the United States, of course, and in most countries. I wonder how much of the slow economic growth and high unemployment in France is connected to this information-denying and thus efficiency-frustrating law?
In the UK I'd always been told you had to give a reference, usually by phone, and couldn't say anything negative but would just say "she worked here" if the employee wasn't very good. One day at a small company I worked for the phone rang and a fellow developer answered. He said "the CEO's in a meeting right now, can I help?... Oh Andrew? He was terrible, couldn't code his way out of a cardboard box and he was really…
In the United States, free speech principles as they apply to defamation law basically allow anyone in your former company to say TRUTHFUL things about your PUBLIC behavior in the workplace without fear of legal liability. But because most employers are allergic to lawsuits, they generally advise their employees to say NOTHING other than verifying dates of employment (to prevent employees saying illegal things about their former colleagues like what race or religion they are, for example). But if you actually phone up references, many of them are quite talkative. Whether they follow the boss's advice not to say much is on them. And a really wonderful way to use references (which I did, as a community volunteer advised by a professional search firm for my local school district many years when it was hiring a new superintendent) is to call and ask for BACK references, that is "Who else do you know who could comment on how well Mr. Smith could do this job he is applying for?" That is perfectly legal, and very informative.
I got offered a job in Switzerland last year. It was the weirdest experience ever. What I suspect happened was I'd written "scrum certified" on my cv, and the job had "scrum manager" in the title, so the poor people were bound by the law of stupid to interview only people with this string in their cv. They never asked me anything relevant. I code a bunch of languages, I can manage people, yada yada, they didn't care.…
What is in your opinion the right way to check whether you have actually graduated at Oxford and what grades you had if not asking for the official documents that contain this information?
So rare in the states. I have as far as I remember, I never had to prove I graduated anything. Some companies do background checks, maybe part of that is to call up the unis and ask if I graduated? No idea what the uni makes public, but I have definitely not had to hand in transcripts or anything.
The reference letter system is bullshit. Besides, most of them are written by the employee himself upon the request of the employer (too busy, can you write it yourself and I sign it?). My advice would be: If in doubt, fake it. The chance the the company will call your previous employer are not zero but close to zero. Even if they call they would just asked if you worked there and not if the letter of recommendation…
I don't thinking faking references is a good long term play.
So turns out you really get a great job, and get promoted to manager. Now HR hears a rumor and checks your application, finds out you lied. Guess what happens to your job?
Contacting former employers or talking about your former employees to a prospective employer is illegal in France. Although it's hard to prove, when they don't ask you directly to give contacts away.
Contacting former employers or talking about your former employees to a prospective employer is illegal in France. The law is different here in the United States, of course, and in most countries. I wonder how much of the slow economic growth and high unemployment in France is connected to this information-denying and thus efficiency-frustrating law?
I don't think it plays a role it would more be a level playing field if they were not using schools and diplomas as a signal for employment.
A lot of people agree that our main problem is that our managers are shit while our engineers are ok.
Contacting former employers or talking about your former employees to a prospective employer is illegal in France. Although it's hard to prove, when they don't ask you directly to give contacts away.
Contacting former employers or talking about your former employees to a prospective employer is illegal in France. The law is different here in the United States, of course, and in most countries. I wonder how much of the slow economic growth and high unemployment in France is connected to this information-denying and thus efficiency-frustrating law?
I'm skeptical that it makes a huge difference. After all, US employers are pretty cautious about giving real information when contacted - the questions may be legal, but you can still get sued over the answers. Most of the "real" information in either setting flows informally.
It can't help, but it's hard to imagine that's anywhere near the top of France's legislative issues.