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Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

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Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#41

Post by mabbo »

Some statistical problems I can see here:

1. Sample size n=80. You would need a pretty incredible result for a sample size this small to be significant.

2. All students from the same region of France. Will this result carry over to other countries? Other cultures?

3. The treatment groups were chosen from pre-existing classes. Classes whose composition may not be random.

It's a cool result, and it should definitely be tried again elsewhere but pop science articles shouldn't be saying this is anything worth talking any yet.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#42

Post by DanBC »

rfrey wrote: post #26
Zelmor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters is raising and parent models, not gender.

At risk of being patronizing, you're probably being downvoted by parents who figure you don't have kids. We have spent many years trying to present gender-neutral environments to our children. Yet at age 3 my son completely ignored the giraffe we were trying to point out at the zoo, and would only focus on the irrigation pump. That kind of experience was repeated often with him and my daughters. One daughter would on…

> We have spent many years trying to present gender-neutral environments to our children.

[...]

> This was before school

My son's favourite colour before he started daycare was pink. That rapidly got policed out of him by other children and disappointingly by staff in day care.

We persevered - "anyone can like any colour; boys can have pink as their favourite colour, girls can have blue as their favourite colour" and it sort of worked, but he's now in his first year at school and the policing from other children is pretty fierce (although the teachers are much better).

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#43

Post by goda90 »

wapapaloobop wrote: post #36

Wow. And after the study they went to the cafeteria and ate food from intentionally smaller plates which tricked their brains into believing they were full -- for about a week. Psychology is so full of lies. Both the content of the 'studies' and the studies themselves (all testing and no theory). Also the motivations for the studies seem to be quite often political. (Presumably this helps for obtaining public money.)…

Surely you can't mean without teaching. It'd be pretty hard to learn to read without someone teaching you.

Perhaps you mean an experiment where a child is raised by a blind caregiver who never talks about reading. Given full access to children's books and other media but no one to tell them about reading, will they pick it up?

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#44

Post by DanBC »

ctrlalt_g wrote: post #38
rfrey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At risk of being patronizing, you're probably being downvoted by parents who figure you don't have kids. We have spent many years trying to present gender-neutral environments to our children. Yet at age 3 my son completely ignored the giraffe we were trying to point out at the zoo, and would only focus on the irrigation pump. That kind of experience was repeated often with him and my daughters. One daughter would on…

If the parents are gendered, how can they possibly present a gender-neutral environment? They would have to cross-dress, vary their speech and mannerism, vary the length of their hair, be androgynous... Perhaps the parents you're referring to are failing to realize just how strongly gendered their lives are.

Sure, there is that.

But same sex parents report similar things happening. And many parents try really pretty to fight aspects of this - talking about movies and tv shows; not conforming to the roles; etc.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#45

Post by matwood »

reitanqild wrote: post #22

Protip: some of us can significantly increase our own throughput if we frame tasks like competitions. I'll add a warning about not overdoing this, as someone who has previously burned out before I am careful not to trick myself too often. Edit: at least -> out

This is how I got through undergrad and grad school. I framed every class and assignment as a competition me vs. the teacher and/or me vs. the other students.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#46

Post by matwood »

jokoon wrote: post #21

I'm a man and I really dislike competitive aspects of society. I mean if I'm playing a game and it's for fun, I'm okay with it, as long as everyone play to play, not play to win. If I'm literally competing to earn a living, or if it ends up in praising winners and blaming losers, it won't be enjoyable, and I'd rather not play at all. Having humility also means that when you win, you also congratulate losers for playi…

But we are a society based on competition and winners and losers (loser in the sense you lost this particular competition) from birth on. Ignoring that is putting yourself at a disadvantage.

I think it is important to have competition early and often in life because learning how to win and lose is an important life lesson. Getting lazy because of a win or quitting because of a loss will severely impact someone for their entire life.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#47

Post by iopq »

goda90 wrote: post #43
wapapaloobop wrote: post #36

Wow. And after the study they went to the cafeteria and ate food from intentionally smaller plates which tricked their brains into believing they were full -- for about a week. Psychology is so full of lies. Both the content of the 'studies' and the studies themselves (all testing and no theory). Also the motivations for the studies seem to be quite often political. (Presumably this helps for obtaining public money.)…

Surely you can't mean without teaching. It'd be pretty hard to learn to read without someone teaching you. Perhaps you mean an experiment where a child is raised by a blind caregiver who never talks about reading. Given full access to children's books and other media but no one to tell them about reading, will they pick it up?

In Russian it's much easier. After someone learns the letter shapes, they're able to read anything. The pronunciation is only ambiguous in terms of stress.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#48

Post by iopq »

DanBC wrote: post #42
rfrey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At risk of being patronizing, you're probably being downvoted by parents who figure you don't have kids. We have spent many years trying to present gender-neutral environments to our children. Yet at age 3 my son completely ignored the giraffe we were trying to point out at the zoo, and would only focus on the irrigation pump. That kind of experience was repeated often with him and my daughters. One daughter would on…

> We have spent many years trying to present gender-neutral environments to our children. [...] > This was before school My son's favourite colour before he started daycare was pink. That rapidly got policed out of him by other children and disappointingly by staff in day care. We persevered - "anyone can like any colour; boys can have pink as their favourite colour, girls can have blue as their favourite colour" and…

Pink vs. blue is a cultural thing

Liking animals and people vs. liking things is very much a natural preference.

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#49

Post by iopq »

jokoon wrote: post #21

I'm a man and I really dislike competitive aspects of society. I mean if I'm playing a game and it's for fun, I'm okay with it, as long as everyone play to play, not play to win. If I'm literally competing to earn a living, or if it ends up in praising winners and blaming losers, it won't be enjoyable, and I'd rather not play at all. Having humility also means that when you win, you also congratulate losers for playi…

> Overall, I sense that men avoid competition much more than women do.

See: any competitive activity. Which gender generally dominates a competition?

Re: Told reading tests are a game, boys score higher

#50

Post by mafribe »

DanBC wrote: post #42
rfrey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At risk of being patronizing, you're probably being downvoted by parents who figure you don't have kids. We have spent many years trying to present gender-neutral environments to our children. Yet at age 3 my son completely ignored the giraffe we were trying to point out at the zoo, and would only focus on the irrigation pump. That kind of experience was repeated often with him and my daughters. One daughter would on…

> We have spent many years trying to present gender-neutral environments to our children. [...] > This was before school My son's favourite colour before he started daycare was pink. That rapidly got policed out of him by other children and disappointingly by staff in day care. We persevered - "anyone can like any colour; boys can have pink as their favourite colour, girls can have blue as their favourite colour" and…

Have you considered the possibility that your family has been putting strong pressure on your son (probably against your conscious wishes) to like pink, and that he has been trying to satisfy what he perceived a parental demand? Children learn by picking up and copying parental behaviour and preferences.

If not, why not?

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