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FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

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Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#41

Post by maze-le »

warmblood wrote: post #22

This is terrorism. Given what we all know based on past events about how the FBI conducts their activities, there is no way any reasonably aware citizen can conduct their life normally after such an encounter. The last discussion thread on this topic had more than a few people complaining that Isis (the given name of the developer in the article) is overreacting and paranoid, which is a saddening response to see. It…

I wouldn't use the word 'terrorism'. Its usage is already inflated beyond reason... I'd rather call it what it is: intimidation / harrasment.

Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#43

Post by chinathrow »

ryanlol wrote: post #39
chinathrow wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea why you get downvoted for this. There is a german word for it - 'Zersetzung'. It was used by Stasi in former divided Germany and for sure has been used in recent years against other folks of the Tor community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung

>and for sure has been used in recent years against other folks of the Tor community. Examples? Edit: Not really sure why asking for examples gets downvotes. Google news search definitely didn't turn up anything but this story.

http://www.dw.com/en/snowden-ally-appelbaum-claims-his-berli...

Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#44

Post by halomru »

setra wrote: post #10
mcherm wrote: post #5

It sounds like her concern is that they might show her a magic piece of paper which, once you've seen it, requires you to do certain things and prohibits you from ever talking about it to anyone.[1] Magic pieces of paper like that really shouldn't be a part of our legal system. [1] https://epic.org/privacy/nsl/

They can email those to you.

"I never received an email, your honor. I don't know what they are taking about. By the way, look at this cool statistic of how many emails get lost on their way from one mail server to the next"

Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#45

Post by woodman »

nxzero wrote: post #29

Curious how many people on HN have had contact with the FBI in the past year?

It is hard to say for a lot of reasons, like if you'd consider informants with explicit direction from the FBI as "FBI". Also, while living in DC many years ago, I was surprised by the number of homeless people I saw with Blackberrys - until I learned about the way FBI surveillance is conducted there.

Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#46

Post by modoc »

maze-le wrote: post #40
modoc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fear of prison?

You can get into prison because someone hacked your email account?

If they dig into it and decide that you did it yourself, as the parent suggested, then yes, you would have a serious risk of prison time for willfully violating the NSL.

Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#47

Post by honua »

chinathrow wrote: post #31
0091810911 wrote: post #11

"I got absolutely no work done." That's the tactics they use (don't ask how I know that). Be strong and welcome to Germany!

No idea why you get downvoted for this. There is a german word for it - 'Zersetzung'. It was used by Stasi in former divided Germany and for sure has been used in recent years against other folks of the Tor community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung

Vielen Dank, das war sehr interessant

Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#48

Post by praptak »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #38
njloof wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She does (still) have a canary: https://fyb.patternsinthevoid.net/canary.html

Could an NSL require you to leave canaries in place?

The (untested) theory behind canaries is that they can forbid you from speaking the truth but they cannot order you to tell a lie.

So you don't leave a canary in place, it just expires and you don't put up a new one.

Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#49

Post by MacsHeadroom »

praptak wrote: post #19
mcherm wrote: post #5

It sounds like her concern is that they might show her a magic piece of paper which, once you've seen it, requires you to do certain things and prohibits you from ever talking about it to anyone.[1] Magic pieces of paper like that really shouldn't be a part of our legal system. [1] https://epic.org/privacy/nsl/

They would just serve the paper using the usual techniques for delivering legal papers to persons possibly unwilling to receive them. These techniques usually avoid identifying yourself upfront. I believe they rather want information which they cannot legally force her to divulge (otherwise see above), so they're trying their luck at intimidation.

NSL are used to compel a party to DO something to assist with, so called, matters of national security, under threat of physical force. If the letter isn't received and a person can't be physically detained then it can't compel anything, other than hiding from its possible existence

To make things more difficult, the very contents of the letter itself are considered a national secret. Typical methods for serving papers would needlessly jeopardize the confidentiality of such papers. So one would presume that these methods simply aren't in the cards.

Re: FBI Harassing Core Tor Developer, Demand Meeting, but Refusing to Explain Why

#50

Post by pdkl95 »

maze-le wrote: post #41
warmblood wrote: post #22

This is terrorism. Given what we all know based on past events about how the FBI conducts their activities, there is no way any reasonably aware citizen can conduct their life normally after such an encounter. The last discussion thread on this topic had more than a few people complaining that Isis (the given name of the developer in the article) is overreacting and paranoid, which is a saddening response to see. It…

I wouldn't use the word 'terrorism'. Its usage is already inflated beyond reason... I'd rather call it what it is: intimidation / harrasment.

> intimidation / harrasment

The FBI used to call that "COINTELPRO".

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