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A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

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Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#41

Post by jessriedel »

rubyfan wrote: post #15
aub3bhat wrote: post #3

I think the reason for huge support behind Basic Income is failure of government in efficient allocation of its resources. The current generation with its experience with public education, spending on unnecessary wars and other poorly run government programs no longer trusts government to effectively deliver services. Thus Basic Income seems like a natural solution. I honestly would prefer a smaller government that r…

Why does it follow that the answer to an inefficient government is to give that same government more power to redistribute wealth? Being a big inefficient government and redistributing wealth are not mutually exclusive.

It's important to distinguish between rights- and incentive-based objections to redistribution and efficiency-based objections to government spending. The government as an organization of humans is very inefficient and wasteful at accomplishing actual tasks (e.g., building bridges), but it's actually very efficient at redistributing wealth through pure transfers (e.g., the administrative overhead of social security is negligible compared to the amount redistributed). Thus the best objections are grounded in bad incentive effects or property rights, not the inefficiency of government.

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#42

Post by crdoconnor »

empressplay wrote: post #34

Won't a basic income just increase inflation? Minimum-wage jobs would by necessity then need to pay more, which would then cause the costs of goods and services to go up, which would then make living more expensive, necessitating an increase in the basic income and so forth...? For example, say I'm a landlord. If everyone all of a sudden had an additional "base" income, why wouldn't I increase my rents to absorb at l…

The cost of inflation is spread across the whole economy. The brunt will mainly be borne by those holding large liquid cash reserves and owning loans, not minimum wagers.

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#43

Post by cmdli »

From the $1 trillon stated in the article, spread across 300 million people, each person would get around $3000 a year. That honestly doesn't seem like it would help a lot, considering it would replace current welfare systems. The Swiss proposal of around $2600 a month, implemented in the US, would cost nearly $10 trillion a year which doesn't really seem feasible.

I don't think the problem with basic income is an ideological one, its a numbers one. There simply isn't enough money to implement it without massively increasing taxes.

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#44

Post by empressplay »

amelius wrote: post #5

I'm still wondering about one thing: if everybody has a basic income, then who will be doing the dirty jobs like collecting our waste? Will the price for waste collecting go up? And will there then be a kind of economic "inversion", where the intellectual people prefer to work on interesting stuff at the expense of money, while the "non-intellectual" (need a better word here) people will make all the money doing the…

I think that once landlords, housing markets and other needs-businesses such as utilities and food providers realize they can hike their prices to absorb the basic income, there will still be plenty of people collecting waste.

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#45

Post by empressplay »

cmdli wrote: post #43

From the $1 trillon stated in the article, spread across 300 million people, each person would get around $3000 a year. That honestly doesn't seem like it would help a lot, considering it would replace current welfare systems. The Swiss proposal of around $2600 a month, implemented in the US, would cost nearly $10 trillion a year which doesn't really seem feasible. I don't think the problem with basic income is an id…

...and how do you stop companies from hiking prices to absorb it?

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#46

Post by panic »

empressplay wrote: post #34

Won't a basic income just increase inflation? Minimum-wage jobs would by necessity then need to pay more, which would then cause the costs of goods and services to go up, which would then make living more expensive, necessitating an increase in the basic income and so forth...? For example, say I'm a landlord. If everyone all of a sudden had an additional "base" income, why wouldn't I increase my rents to absorb at l…

Minimum-wage jobs would by necessity then need to pay more

That's the opposite of what's being proposed: the minimum income comes from the government, not employers. Minimum income can replace minimum wage.

For example, say I'm a landlord. If everyone all of a sudden had an additional "base" income, why wouldn't I increase my rents to absorb at least a portion of that? Then, only people who had a job would still be able to afford to rent from me, while those on the basic income would be unable to afford it. I'm not out either way.

Sure, but now that you've raised the price, there's an opportunity to undercut you that didn't exist before. The result ultimately depends on the supply and demand of housing. Just think of it like a bunch of slightly-richer people moving into the neighborhood. Prices will rise, but not enough to take all the new residents' extra money.

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#47

Post by empressplay »

_Understated_ wrote: post #31
amelius wrote: post #5

I'm still wondering about one thing: if everybody has a basic income, then who will be doing the dirty jobs like collecting our waste? Will the price for waste collecting go up? And will there then be a kind of economic "inversion", where the intellectual people prefer to work on interesting stuff at the expense of money, while the "non-intellectual" (need a better word here) people will make all the money doing the…

I haven't read into it too much at the moment as it's still a bit of a pipe-dream just now although it's looking more likely to change but I sit on the fence at this time (with a lean towards "no"). I don't see that happening to be honest but I do see something worse... Won't the price of everything go up for those that don't currently need the welfare system? Is this a sort of stealth tax increase on the middle clas…

Absolutely. And even those who can't / won't work _still_ won't be able to find a place to live or eat well because rents and food prices will go up to compensate for it.

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#48

Post by empressplay »

rlpb wrote: post #22
amelius wrote: post #5

I'm still wondering about one thing: if everybody has a basic income, then who will be doing the dirty jobs like collecting our waste? Will the price for waste collecting go up? And will there then be a kind of economic "inversion", where the intellectual people prefer to work on interesting stuff at the expense of money, while the "non-intellectual" (need a better word here) people will make all the money doing the…

If the market rate for dirty jobs goes up, will the basic income be enough, or will I struggle to pay for my waste collection (and everything else) on the basic income alone?

Which is a good point. Ultimately all costs get passed on to the consumer -- so where does it end?

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#49

Post by T-A »

amelius wrote: post #5

I'm still wondering about one thing: if everybody has a basic income, then who will be doing the dirty jobs like collecting our waste? Will the price for waste collecting go up? And will there then be a kind of economic "inversion", where the intellectual people prefer to work on interesting stuff at the expense of money, while the "non-intellectual" (need a better word here) people will make all the money doing the…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Financial_Fable

Re: A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing

#50

Post by gjm11 »

FiReaNG3L wrote: post #9
amelius wrote: post #5

I'm still wondering about one thing: if everybody has a basic income, then who will be doing the dirty jobs like collecting our waste? Will the price for waste collecting go up? And will there then be a kind of economic "inversion", where the intellectual people prefer to work on interesting stuff at the expense of money, while the "non-intellectual" (need a better word here) people will make all the money doing the…

It is already the case - go try and pursue a career in academia and see how much money you make compared to a plumber.

Some intellectually satisfying jobs (academic, author, artist, ...) pay badly. But many others are well paid, and probably most of the best-paid jobs are (1) largely brainwork and (2) pretty interesting to do.

Some not-very-intellectual jobs (plumbers are everyone's favourite example, which makes me suspect there aren't many others) pay pretty well. But most don't.

Some jobs that usually pay pretty well: Software developer. Lawyer. Doctor. Quant. Corporate executive.

Some jobs that usually pay pretty badly: Cleaner. Waiter. Shop-floor sales person. Bank cashier.

I think these are more representative than comparing adjunct professors with plumbers.

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