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TTIP Leaks

ttip-leaks.org

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Re: TTIP Leaks

#41

Post by crdoconnor »

tommyman wrote: post #40
crdoconnor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has spoken out against the TTIP and TPP on a number of occasions. The media just doesn't like to talk about that aspect of his campaign: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/27/trade-policy...

I'm not sure how much weight that has. Forget what people say to/in public settings and look at their current & previous actions. If Trump were not in presidential race and putting on public face, how do you think he would treat TTiP based on his lifetime actions? I think he would support & exploit it every way he could, & i think thats what he will do in reality regardless of what he states publicly but that's just…

He puts a large enough emphasis on it and garners enough support from it. I doubt he's going to do a 180 if elected.

It's not quite like George Bush's offhand "we will not do nation building" or Obama's offhand "this will be the most transparent administration ever". The unfairness of US trade deals is fairly central to his campaign and his support base of working class whites in hollowed out ex-industrial America.

Then again, can't rule it out either.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#42

Post by lumberjack »

tdkl wrote: post #37
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

The corporations have hijacked the US government years ago it was always only the matter of time that they'll spread to EU. What saddens me more is that the cucked EU will let them, forgetting all the achievements this continent has to offer.

I think the EU itself was simply the start of the "hijacking". After all it is mainly an economic union meant to liberalise trade within Europe.

What's interesting is that there is actually more Fortune 500 companies in the EU (though really just in western Europe) than in the US. However the difference, I believe is that till now political power is less concentrated in the EU than it is in the US so Shell has much less influence on most EU states than Chevron has on US states simply because it is harder for Shell to influence policy outside of the Netherlands and UK. But with the harmonisation of markets and EU policy and centralisation of political power this will all change.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#43

Post by lumberjack »

rkrzr wrote: post #39

This leak once again shows the importance of transparency in negotiations that will impact the lives of 800 million people (and the rest of the world indirectly). If TTIP were ratified, it would be out of the control of any subsequently elected democratic governments as it would be part of international law. Regardless what you think of TTIP it seems like the very least to ask is that a contract of such importance is…

What I'm now wondering is, can the WTO bully US and EU states in the way it can bully third world countries?

What if renegade states across both sides of the Atlantic decided to disregard the treaty and the fines that will follow immediately? What will the WTO do then? Sanction them?

Re: TTIP Leaks

#44

Post by dexterdog »

leoc wrote: post #30
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, it is OK, to violate the rights of the people in a "transparent" way? Or are you just want to say, that it is an improvement that he at least kept one of his promises?

I'm pretty sure dexterdog is being sarcastic.

I'm pretty sure you got it.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#45

Post by forgetsusername »

tommyman wrote: post #40
crdoconnor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has spoken out against the TTIP and TPP on a number of occasions. The media just doesn't like to talk about that aspect of his campaign: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/27/trade-policy...

I'm not sure how much weight that has. Forget what people say to/in public settings and look at their current & previous actions. If Trump were not in presidential race and putting on public face, how do you think he would treat TTiP based on his lifetime actions? I think he would support & exploit it every way he could, & i think thats what he will do in reality regardless of what he states publicly but that's just…

>I'm not sure how much weight that has. >think he would support & exploit it every way he could

I'm not going to claim to know Trump's ambitions but you're dismissing the source and countering with "that has no weight...I think..."?

The article yesterday about the uninformed vs the misinformed mentioned this: in a time where we are overwhelmed with information, people dismiss things that don't agree with their preconceived notions as "baseless", while seeking "news" that supports their biases. It's a problem.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#46

Post by hellbanner »

tdkl wrote: post #37
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

The corporations have hijacked the US government years ago it was always only the matter of time that they'll spread to EU. What saddens me more is that the cucked EU will let them, forgetting all the achievements this continent has to offer.

Quote?

Re: TTIP Leaks

#47

Post by kevando »

grecy wrote: post #33
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

> This is a takeover attempt through the backdoor. In case it wasn't already immensely obvious, the third world war has been underway for some time. This one isn't a war fought with guns and bombs, it's a war fought with information, deals and economies. See China's massive economy and ownership of the US, the massive drop in oil price and what that's done to the world economy etc. The citizens of the world wouldn't…

In case I didn't misunderstand your comment, no, the ongoing WW3 is not obvious.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#48

Post by lispm »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #29
lispm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spin in Germany actually is that regulation GENERALLY in the EU is working differently and that few want to change to the US model (less regulation to bring products to the market, but costly court cases). You can study the effects of the differences in many areas. That it is not working in some areas and that there is a lot industry lobbying is another topic.

The problem with the automotive industry is, that the top lobbyist in the EU for it is the German chancellor (which name soever he/she has).

No, the problem with industry general is that it is tightly interwoven with politics and naturally tries to find loopholes in any regulatory system. The question is, given that the regulatory approach is not perfect, which one has still more benefits for the consumer.

* a new pesticide enters the market. After three years we find out that it kills bees and would lead to the death of a species.

Germans usually would want that some independent upfront effort is done to determine that this product is potentially harmful and prevent it from entering the market. In real life, this leads to all kinds of practical problems. But that does not mean we should give up this approach, just because it is not perfect.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#49

Post by msvan »

Cecilia Malmström, European Commissioner for Trade, on the documents:

> First of all, and contrary to what many seem to believe, so-called "consolidated texts" in a trade negotiation are not the same thing as an outcome. They reflect each side's negotiating position, nothing else. [...] In that sense, many of today's alarmist headlines are a storm in a teacup. [...] No EU trade agreement will ever lower our level of protection of consumers, or food safety, or of the environment. Trade agreements will not change our laws on GMOs, or how to produce safe beef, or how to protect the environment.

http://ec.europa.eu/commission/2014-2019/malmstrom/blog/nego...

Re: TTIP Leaks

#50

Post by JustSomeNobody »

tommyman wrote: post #28
tazjin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

I honestly cannot tell if that is serious, a joke or some kind of irony. I'm not american so really not my business however narcissists do not make good social leaders. They make really terrible & dangerous social leaders.

I am and I'm disgusted that the only two people we deem worthy of putting to the forefront for our forthcoming election are Trump and Clinton.

Prepare for the Bill of Rights to be eroded further when either of these two idiots are elected.

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