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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#41

Post by marincounty »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #20

Some people write songs about the music industry sucking. Hotel California is one (I bet). It would be fun to study this idea. Oh, another one could be Don't Download this Song by Weird Al. Edit: I wonder if Mr. Miller ever tried something like that.

When I was in college, I took my girlfriend on a summer vacation. We were both broke, so we decided to camp out along the CA coast. My car was on its last days, and the transmission didn't feel right, but we wanted that vacation. She was a great sport, as I tried to make it work.

It seemed like nothing was working as I planned, except the sight of her in that bikini. I had a bunch of camping equipment, and thought, "Ahh--this will be a breeze. I'll just pitch a tent when the sun goes down. First night--ticket. (The state parks, private parks are completely filled months in advance by smart travelers. I had no idea they were so popular.)

Second night--I ended up in Hotel California. I believe in Santa Barbara. The hotel was horrid, but it looked nice from the outside.

There she was this beautiful, innocent blond, sitting on the edge of the bed. She said, "Well--at least we won't get hassled by the cops?". I went to get dinner, and even bought a candle. This was our first vacation together, and nothing worked out.

Out of feeling bad about the room, I told her a lie. A lie over Chinese food, and the candle.

I told her this is where the musicians stayed when they wrote that song--Hotel California. The look on her face was priceless. I was in too deep, and couldn't tell her the truth.

I remember limping my Chevy back home. I still can't get her out of my mind though. I remember she wore a bikini, and wondered why people were looking. Yes--she was that innocent. We went shopping, and I bought her a one piece bathing suit. I told her this is the fashion here. I lied again. I have no idea what she saw in me.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#43

Post by earlz »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #27
6stringmerc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've done a strong job of describing what I felt years and years ago, and have come to learn is the lay of the land still in the music business. Labels have done a fantastic job of maintaining their gate-keeper status and of being able to break new artists into the mainstream. What didn't change with the internet is, partially kidding here, that 14 year old girls decide what's going to be popular. Outside of that,…

>> "Also Skrillex - his label had no interest in his bleep-blonk-screech-BASS DROP tunes and he set it free online and got that avenue going - now he's got his own label and millions in the bank." Financially I think artists like Skrillex (EDM producers in general) are incredibly lucky. Production costs are practically zero. You buy a DAW and some monitors and you can do everything at home on your laptop. You don't n…

Realistically, this is also true of most modern music. Sure it requires a bit more equipment, but with software amp simulation and the plethora of VST plugins you can get, you can almost always get a tone similar to your target for just a couple hundred dollars, at most. Combine with equipment and you're looking at maybe $600 in instruments/equipment and a basic mic for vocals. The only sticking point right now it seems is that drums are still notoriously hard to record, though MIDI/software drums are extremely realistic, and even beyond that. It's extremely easy to find a random stranger on the internet that likes your style and happens to be a drummer with all the equipment for recording drums.

And then again, EDM is cheap, but it can be extremely time consuming if you're going cheap. Good synths don't just build themselves and there's a reason people buy virtual instrument packs.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#44

Post by moron4hire »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #29
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

I used to work in a record shop and found out first hand how much promotion a band needs just to sell a few CD's. I can't tell you how many insanely good bands died because either the label didn't promote them, or they just ran out of cash and quit. The only problem I see nowadays is there's virtually no vetting process. It used to be the good bands would eventually rise to the top and the shitty garage bands would b…

The old ways of playing local and building a following are still available. Maybe you won't see the same crazy success numbers a teenage girl dancing around with a violin on YouTube can get, but that's the fuggin lottery anyway.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#46

Post by DannoHung »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #29
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

I used to work in a record shop and found out first hand how much promotion a band needs just to sell a few CD's. I can't tell you how many insanely good bands died because either the label didn't promote them, or they just ran out of cash and quit. The only problem I see nowadays is there's virtually no vetting process. It used to be the good bands would eventually rise to the top and the shitty garage bands would b…

> As a huge music fan, how do I sort through all the noise to find a truly good band, and not some guy programming the guitars, drums tracks and bass and then does the vocals himself?

Eh? Do you mean you don't like it unless you know the band is full of good instrumentalists or that you find too much stuff that's not done well?

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#47

Post by 6stringmerc »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #27
6stringmerc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've done a strong job of describing what I felt years and years ago, and have come to learn is the lay of the land still in the music business. Labels have done a fantastic job of maintaining their gate-keeper status and of being able to break new artists into the mainstream. What didn't change with the internet is, partially kidding here, that 14 year old girls decide what's going to be popular. Outside of that,…

>> "Also Skrillex - his label had no interest in his bleep-blonk-screech-BASS DROP tunes and he set it free online and got that avenue going - now he's got his own label and millions in the bank." Financially I think artists like Skrillex (EDM producers in general) are incredibly lucky. Production costs are practically zero. You buy a DAW and some monitors and you can do everything at home on your laptop. You don't n…

Good point for sure. It's not just EDM - a basic Pop song can be produced at practically zero cost once an independent musician and producer has sunk the costs of DAW and equipment into the operation. A lot of music, in general, is stunningly simple. Hip-hop can be done with one MPC and a mic (okay maybe AutoTune as well haha). Country only really needs an acoustic guitar, vocals, and a quality mic. Yes, there's a reason studio quality recordings sound great, and I'm not going to deny that at all. But...

Owl City is a great example of a talented person producing their own material (then mastered) which fit the quality expectations and was, pretty much, recorded in one guy's bedroom.

Gotye's "Used to Know" was recorded all by himself in a room over a barn in New Zealand.

These are just a couple recent examples where I think the technology and dynamics of music production are really coming together (Trent Reznor is a great historical study). Personally I really enjoy playing with a talented drummer - which I will do tonight and probably broadcast on Periscope - but when I'm at home, making tunes that I'll eventually release, I can get fantastic results from Apple's GarageBand "Drummer" algorithm thingy.

The tools that exist now would've changed my world as a teenager. I think teenagers growing up now - the ones serious about making music - have more tools and opportunities than ever before. I'm a wee bit jealous, no lie.

Edit: To clarify regarding your edit, the personal production can now extend to live performance. Rappers typically just have a DJ behind them (sometimes a live band). There's a lot of wiggle-room for mid-market musicians to simply bring their box of backing tracks with them to perform live, and I think that is becoming more and more acceptable. I used to get really odd looks using a Netbook + Akai APC40 on stage, and now that's pretty tame compared to some of the other gear setups indies can employ. This way, the musician makes more money because there are fewer musicians on stage that need to be paid (my personal approach).

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#48

Post by burkaman »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #27
6stringmerc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've done a strong job of describing what I felt years and years ago, and have come to learn is the lay of the land still in the music business. Labels have done a fantastic job of maintaining their gate-keeper status and of being able to break new artists into the mainstream. What didn't change with the internet is, partially kidding here, that 14 year old girls decide what's going to be popular. Outside of that,…

>> "Also Skrillex - his label had no interest in his bleep-blonk-screech-BASS DROP tunes and he set it free online and got that avenue going - now he's got his own label and millions in the bank." Financially I think artists like Skrillex (EDM producers in general) are incredibly lucky. Production costs are practically zero. You buy a DAW and some monitors and you can do everything at home on your laptop. You don't n…

But that means there's lots more competition, right? If, theoretically, anybody with a laptop can do what you do, you have to be that much more talented and work that much harder.

It sounds like any other business. It's like saying freelance web developers are incredibly lucky, because their only business expenses are a laptop and maybe some software. That's true, but it also means that high school students can do what they do for free.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#49

Post by 6stringmerc »

DannoHung wrote: post #46
at-fates-hands wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work in a record shop and found out first hand how much promotion a band needs just to sell a few CD's. I can't tell you how many insanely good bands died because either the label didn't promote them, or they just ran out of cash and quit. The only problem I see nowadays is there's virtually no vetting process. It used to be the good bands would eventually rise to the top and the shitty garage bands would b…

> As a huge music fan, how do I sort through all the noise to find a truly good band, and not some guy programming the guitars, drums tracks and bass and then does the vocals himself? Eh? Do you mean you don't like it unless you know the band is full of good instrumentalists or that you find too much stuff that's not done well?

Not my comment but I had to read that a couple times too - I think it's more a reference to the latter part, as in, things not done well. A one-person shop might make a lot of excuses and not have the ability to reach quality production to the point of hiding the fact it's just a one-person shop.

Fundamentally I don't disagree; it takes a lot to 'sound pro' and a lot falls short...it's been a multi-year learning process on my end and I'm still nowhere near 'pro' engineer level, though some tracks might fool ears here and there.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#50

Post by firasd »

beachstartup wrote: post #32

this happens in any industry run by gatekeepers. see: hollywood, video games, venture backed technology startups, fashion. all these verticals are run by assholes and basically suck unless you become a successful indie outfit. p.s. it doesn't surprise me the hall of fame was started by a bunch of lawyers and people from rolling stone, a magazine with basically zero journalistic integrity, at best.

The other similarity across the industries you mention is that people want to participate in them for 'passion', in a way they wouldn't participate in, say, accounting.
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