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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#41

Post by davidw »

sliverstorm wrote: post #38
davidw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it the same neighborhood when you moved there? Things change, especially in the US. "The immaculate conception theory of your neighborhood’s origins": http://cityobservatory.org/the-immaculate-conception-theory-... And: if prices are going up that much, and you really want out, you can sell and move, to, say, Lakeview, Oregon.

Yes, things change. But I contest the notion that adding more housing to a neighborhood is a magic bullet that will make everyone happy. Among many issues, the fundamental attractiveness of a particular neighborhood may be tied to low population density. In which case ripping down the neighborhood and rebuilding makes neither resident Person A nor prospective buyer Person B happy.

No, it won't, but it'll lead to the population as a whole being better off because it will allow more people to live in a very productive area, as well as leaving an out (sell and move) for those who can't stomach the thought of denser housing.

Sooner or later, the US must confront the fact that not everyone can live in a single story ranch house with a big yard in an extremely desirable part of the country, without causing massive sprawl (LA).

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#42

Post by tallanvor »

Grishnakh wrote: post #23
Apocryphon wrote: post #9

"They’ve increased 38 percent in Seattle, 12 percent in Austin and 6 percent in Phoenix." The article names the usual suspects for engineer emigrants (Austin, Portland, strangely no mention of NYC or Raleigh RTP), but why are people moving to Phoenix? Isn't living in the less sexy areas of South Bay (Sunnyvale, Milpitas, South San Jose) pretty much on par with urban life in Phoenix?

>but why are people moving to Phoenix? Isn't living in the less sexy areas of South Bay (Sunnyvale, Milpitas, South San Jose) pretty much on par with urban life in Phoenix? No way. Phoenix is a wonderful place to live! The weather is beautiful! Forget that stuff you read about the heat; you'll get used to it. It's a dry heat! Seriously, if you live in the Bay Area or Portland or Seattle, move to Phoenix! It's great!…

Dry heat or not, it's still way too hot! I grew up in the desert and have absolutely no desire to ever live in one again.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#43

Post by stepanhruda »

rconti wrote: post #5

Many problems with this article. "A software engineer in Austin earning $110,000 would need to make $195,000 in San Francisco to maintain the same quality of life" Would they? They point out the median in the bay area is $118k, but there's no indication that the median in Austin is $110k; maybe they just pulled that number out of thin air? They cite slowing tech employment growth in SF, but it seems clear that it's a…

This report lists $110k as median for Austin:

http://get.hired.com/rs/348-IPO-044/images/Hired-State-of-Sa...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#44

Post by blhack »

dkopi wrote: post #21
simook wrote: post #2

Portland resident here. What this article doesn't cover, is now locals are victim of gentrification. Rent prices are almost 2x, out of state buyers are throwing all cash offers on houses, and overall housing supply is low... I'm sure the commercial market is just as bad. Interesting times.

It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out. Rising demand is great. It means people want to enjoy your neighborhood. You can either meet that demand by increasing supply, or you can restrict the demand, and let certain people be outpriced by the market. Locals aren't victims of gentrification. They're victims of zoning laws and nimbyism.

>It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out.

How does this work in your head? When the new homes are being built, where do the people who were living on the land they're being built on go?

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#45

Post by dionidium »

sliverstorm wrote: post #31
dkopi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out. Rising demand is great. It means people want to enjoy your neighborhood. You can either meet that demand by increasing supply, or you can restrict the demand, and let certain people be outpriced by the market. Locals aren't victims of gentrification. They're victims of zoning laws and nimbyism.

So consider a nice, quaint neighborhood. Person A lives there. Person B wants to live there too, because it is so nice. Ok, let's say we double supply. All the houses are now either twice as high, or half as big, or maybe the trees were cut down and the bushes ripped out to make room. There's twice as many people & everything therein. Is it still the same nice neighborhood?

You're right, of course, but this sentiment amounts to little more than stomping your feet and wishing the world were different.

As long as there is high demand, you can either build more or expect higher prices and more sprawl. I get that people don't like those choices, but that's what's on the table.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#47

Post by dionidium »

blhack wrote: post #44
dkopi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out. Rising demand is great. It means people want to enjoy your neighborhood. You can either meet that demand by increasing supply, or you can restrict the demand, and let certain people be outpriced by the market. Locals aren't victims of gentrification. They're victims of zoning laws and nimbyism.

>It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out. How does this work in your head? When the new homes are being built, where do the people who were living on the land they're being built on go?

They go into higher-density buildings, just like everybody else. That, or nothing changes and they get priced out. Those are the options.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#49

Post by bigdubs »

Apocryphon wrote: post #25
TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.zillow.com/phoenix-az/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/sunnyvale-ca/home-values/

I wonder if the tech sprawl will force people to live further and further south. Coyote Valley, Morgan Hill, Gilroy?

Gilroy ... never again. That smell. Like someone boiled hades.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#50

Post by dkopi »

blhack wrote: post #44
dkopi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out. Rising demand is great. It means people want to enjoy your neighborhood. You can either meet that demand by increasing supply, or you can restrict the demand, and let certain people be outpriced by the market. Locals aren't victims of gentrification. They're victims of zoning laws and nimbyism.

>It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out. How does this work in your head? When the new homes are being built, where do the people who were living on the land they're being built on go?

Some algorithms require additional temporary space. Other algorithms can modify a data structure in place. Some data structures are very loosely spaced in memory as it is, and adding existing nodes is just about using up more of the existing memory capacity.

Cities have been able to grow for centuries. The only thing stopping them from growing are zoning and restrictions prohibiting additional homes being built.

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