Live data from Hacker News

Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

nytimes.com

41–50 of 247 posts

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#41
post #5

As a german I really have to wonder what's wrong with our government if we continue to cozy up to Erdogan's turkey. I really don't think having turkey as a migration buffer is worth paying the price of making the european union look like a club you can buy your way into regardless of ethics. What's the use of values if we're starting to ignore them so easily?

I'm a Turkish expat (read: immigrant) working in Germany as a software engineer since 7 years. This situation disturbs me two folds: 1) For the reasons you mentioned already, 2) The power gained through this dirty game being used to suppress the already heavily weakened opposition further in my once democratic country (However, I feel more attached to Germany, to be honest).

> However, I feel more attached to Germany, to be honest

As a fellow German, it's encouraging to hear that immigrants sometimes still feel they can identify with Germany as their new country, despite all the obvious hurdles.

My ex girlfriend's parents moved back to Turkey recently after spending pretty much their entire working lives in Germany, which got me thinking a lot. They said their primary reasons were that they could do more with their retirement money in Turkey and that the weather is nicer - but at the end of the day it means a liberal, secular couple felt like they would be better off moving into a country with a failing democracy, increasing religious fundamentalism, with a wannabe Putin in charge, as opposed to staying where they spent most of their lives.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#42
post #5

As a german I really have to wonder what's wrong with our government if we continue to cozy up to Erdogan's turkey. I really don't think having turkey as a migration buffer is worth paying the price of making the european union look like a club you can buy your way into regardless of ethics. What's the use of values if we're starting to ignore them so easily?

I'm a Turkish expat (read: immigrant) working in Germany as a software engineer since 7 years. This situation disturbs me two folds: 1) For the reasons you mentioned already, 2) The power gained through this dirty game being used to suppress the already heavily weakened opposition further in my once democratic country (However, I feel more attached to Germany, to be honest).

"in my once democratic country"

The ironic thing is that a few years ago, when the generals still kept the government in check to ensure the secular nature of the Turkish state, the streak in the European left was "Turkey is not democratic because the military has too much power", and the 2002 reforms were heralded as a major improvement. Something about a frying pan and a fire comes to mind...

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#43
post #5

As a german I really have to wonder what's wrong with our government if we continue to cozy up to Erdogan's turkey. I really don't think having turkey as a migration buffer is worth paying the price of making the european union look like a club you can buy your way into regardless of ethics. What's the use of values if we're starting to ignore them so easily?

What do you expect from a government run by to former East German state security members (IMs)? IM "Erika" and IM "Raupe"

Erdogan is an idiot. He overplayed his cards and does not realize it. I hope Turkey stays out of the EU forever.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey cannot be really migration buffer. But for Germans - i think that the internalized guilt that was whipped into the German society after WWII just prevents them from thinking - EU and his people/interests first, Germany first or criticizing foreigners. We all will pay dearly for supporting "religious freedom" Erdogan against his army in the early 00s

I can't disagree with you at all. The rise of religion in government does us no good. However, we have to face reality as it exists. There'd be someone else if not him. Turkish people are clearly religious Muslims. While it would be nice to have a secular army in control of Turkey, we know the situation wouldn't be viable long term. I for one am glad when politicians take roads sustainably in the long term rather tha…

The army upheld the secular character of Turkey for nearly a century. That is long term-ish enough. And they would have deposed Erdogan again in 2004 (I think), when it was clear he had no respect for the secular values of Ataturk. But the coup failed due to a preemptive strike.

It was Kemal Ataturk himself that set up the things that way.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just goes to show that politics is really really hard. You never get to hear about the decisions that are easy. If it's reported in the media, it's almost by definition an issue with multiple viable options (or, in this case, only bad choices). Having seen a bit of German politics from the inside, I can assure you that everyone grapples with choices like this. I've witnessed ministers of finance changing their opi…

Blaming this on 'racism' is a poor argument. Maybe it has something to do with the incompatible cultures and values.

"incompatible cultures and values" are almost exactly the words these racists have always used to keep Turkey out. Britain, Spain, Greece, Cyprus and Slovakia are all compatible, but Turkey is a step too far?

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#46
post #32
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey is considered a US ally. We don't use the term dictators for our allies. (see Saudi Arabia for example).

The correct term for the leader of Saudi Arabia is 'king', though, so it is quite understandable that dictator is not used there. Which of course doesn't make the situation any better.

And Saddam Husseins correct title was 'President' and Hitlers correct title was 'Führer' or 'Reich Chancellor', but they were still dictators.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just goes to show that politics is really really hard. You never get to hear about the decisions that are easy. If it's reported in the media, it's almost by definition an issue with multiple viable options (or, in this case, only bad choices). Having seen a bit of German politics from the inside, I can assure you that everyone grapples with choices like this. I've witnessed ministers of finance changing their opi…

Blaming this on 'racism' is a poor argument. Maybe it has something to do with the incompatible cultures and values.

Nah, it was the German govm'ts fear of public backlash due to the fucked-up integration of Turkish immigrants. Public opinion in Germany was not Turkey-welcoming at the time.

The current situation is just Erdogan having his revenge on Europe for dropping Turkey.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#48
post #5

As a german I really have to wonder what's wrong with our government if we continue to cozy up to Erdogan's turkey. I really don't think having turkey as a migration buffer is worth paying the price of making the european union look like a club you can buy your way into regardless of ethics. What's the use of values if we're starting to ignore them so easily?

It just goes to show that politics is really really hard. You never get to hear about the decisions that are easy. If it's reported in the media, it's almost by definition an issue with multiple viable options (or, in this case, only bad choices). Having seen a bit of German politics from the inside, I can assure you that everyone grapples with choices like this. I've witnessed ministers of finance changing their opi…

We should count ourselves lucky Turkey didn't join the EU in 1995-2008. I'd rather have an authoritarian Turkey outside of the EU than inside. We have enough trouble with the likes of Orban and Kaczynski already.

And I don't follow the arguments for Turkey joining. Yes, it may have enormous potential; but nobody would say Mexico should join the US just because it has potential.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#49
post #37

Something i haven't seen mentioned much is that the tv station this show is on, is a public broadcasting station paid for with taxes via the german government. While it turns out there are laws in place that ensure the government cannot influence program, it is fairly easy to understand how Erdogan could take this combination of being mocked by a state tv station wrongly, and get the impression that contacting the am…

There is quite a difference: The station isn’t paid for by taxes from the government, but the station has the right to collect its own taxes , ensuring it can act independently.

Moreover, this right is established by a treaty between the German states, rather than by a law of the federal government.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just goes to show that politics is really really hard. You never get to hear about the decisions that are easy. If it's reported in the media, it's almost by definition an issue with multiple viable options (or, in this case, only bad choices). Having seen a bit of German politics from the inside, I can assure you that everyone grapples with choices like this. I've witnessed ministers of finance changing their opi…

We should count ourselves lucky Turkey didn't join the EU in 1995-2008. I'd rather have an authoritarian Turkey outside of the EU than inside. We have enough trouble with the likes of Orban and Kaczynski already. And I don't follow the arguments for Turkey joining. Yes, it may have enormous potential; but nobody would say Mexico should join the US just because it has potential.

>> "We should count ourselves lucky Turkey didn't join the EU in 1995-2008. I'd rather have an authoritarian Turkey outside of the EU than inside."

On the other hand wouldn't they be subject to certain laws to prevent or reduce the authoritarianism if they were part of the EU?

Post reply on HN