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State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

dannyherran.com

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Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#41

Post by hsmallbone »

duxet wrote: post #13

I would like to see a comparison of BS4 with Semantic UI, it has a few pretty interesting components

Having used both, I find that although Semantic UI has a lot more pluggable components, documentation on anything beyond simple examples and one sentence descriptions is severely lacking. Some components are just plain buggy, and the developer is not very fast at fixing them. It's got a lot of features but the lack of polish and development speed makes it hard to recommend for a larger team.

I think only having a single developer has had mixed effects on the project, which is a shame because it's so close to being great.

Meanwhile BS4 has solid built in components that are just documented enough to be usable despite not having as many. Issues get fixed quickly and it feels easier to follow its conventions. The JS APIs are simple enough as well, and the code behind it is much easier to follow than in Semantic UI.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#42

Post by bildung »

dexterdog wrote: post #27
bildung wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be amazed :) I write web applications for internal use at non-profits. If the office boxes still run IE8, IE8 has to be supported by the application.

Have you tried talking them into the current century and all of its spoils?

Heh, sure have :)

Problem is most (European, e.g. less donation-financed) non-profits have a cash flow fundamentally different to that of a company: Most of the budget comes from a foundation, the government etc. and is tied to a specific use.

So if the non-profit got funds for a specific project, they have e.g. full wages for 3 persons, much money for train tickets/renting of cars, food and accomodation, renting of kit, paying people like me for needed solutions, office rent and so on - but with fixed budgets for each! Stuff the non-profit could use after the funded project is finished (like modern computers, office inventory, cars) is much harder to get funded.

This setup is meant to prevent corruption, not save the foundation money. The foundation usually has no qualms to grant 10k for renting cars, but will refute 5k for buying a car.

In short, freely usable funds for upgrading IT equipment can be scarse even in well-financed non-profits.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#43

Post by code_research »

A few things about Foundation 6:

You do not need to include the whole javascript, you can include just the things you need. However, there have been problems with webpack and Foundation javascript developers seem to have no clue about what is going on in the JS frontend world, acting like isolated on a moon station, disconnected, what leads to problems with integrating other things.

Very problematic is they still have FOUC problems - you have to look for various workarounds, but FOUC out of the box! The menu components and everything related to responsiveness suffer from it. I do not understand how this ever got released.

Foundation 5 was ok, but this 6 release is disappointing. The modular handling of menus is a good idea, but overall execution is bad, lots of micro-problems everywhere, it feels not even pre-alpha. Also very monolithic and non-cooperative, ugly to integrate with anything else.

I would recommend looking at semantic ui instead, which also has a good react integration, something Foundation designers do not have ever thought about.

About the community: the people are great, but Zurb gives them only a totally annoying "forum" that is not able to filter for versions, so when you are searching for things you get all the stuff from previous versions, an information design nightmare, that would be easy to fix, but they do not even seem to have a problem with it - this says a lot about the agency behind it.

Also be careful with installing foundation globally: it will overwrite your Foundation 5 binary, if you are using this, be careful. Not a serious problem, but when you still want to use F5 you have to prepare for it! Even with version 6 they still do not have a clue how to handle versioning, this tells a lot about the code quality you will be confronted with.

But they have great marketing, the site and everything around F6 looks really great!

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#44

Post by CryoLogic »

brickcap wrote: post #22

Has anyone tried some of the newer css frameworks? Lots of them are listed on cssdb [1]. I especially like skeleton [2]. [1] http://cssdb.co/ [2] http://getskeleton.com/

I've worked extensively with materialize, which has been a similar experience to bootstrap.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#45

Post by kiallmacinnes »

code_research wrote: post #33
stevoski wrote: post #8

Bootstrap 4 seems to be the clear winner, according to the article. If you want to start designing with it already (which is not a great idea; it is still alpha), here's a Bootstrap 4 PSD template you can use: http://hackerthemes.com/blog/bootstrap-4-psd-template

Nobody should be using Photoshop nowadays to design a website. A competent web designer knows about html and css and - most importantly - has a good understanding for how a website behaves, especially regarding responsiveness and animations. It is a good reason to leave the room / team / project when "design a website" means "open photoshop".

So, I'm not a web designer or developer (anymore). But.. This strikes me as being the same line of though as "Leave the team when your new coding project starts with a whiteboard rather than text editor". Sure, we can just start coding, but the result is rarely as clean.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#46

Post by andybak »

cmdkeen wrote: post #31

The key unanswered question, and for me the fundamental reason I switched from using Bootstrap to Foundation at work, is how designer friendly the two are. Bootstrap is fantastic when you want a site that looks like Bootstrap, these tend to be put together by developers. Foundation (at least was) much less opinionated and therefore when you're given a PSD by a designer much easier to implement. Have things improved o…

Is it really that hard? The templates on http://wrapbootstrap.com/ are fairly varied and don't tend to be obviously bootstrappy.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#48

Post by robertwalsh0 »

I prefer Foundation because I think the grid system is superior as suggested by the author and I think it's much easier to style in such a way that the site looks like your own. As many have pointed out, many 'Bootstrap' sites look like 'Bootstrap' sites. My biggest gripe about Foundation is that beyond Mad Mimi's Foundation 5 port there aren't as many high quality tools to use Angular with Foundation compared to all the Bootstrap Angular tools.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#49

Post by guylepage3 »

IMO, Bootstrap v4 is much stronger than Foundation for many reasons. Here's one...

b4 has a much stronger "foundation." What do I mean by that? Well to be honest if you actually look at the HTML structure of both frameworks, you'll see that b4 is not only utilizing more modern techniques but that they have reduced and simplified their markup. ie, navigation items. b4 uses 's for each nav element which allows for more control while foundation is using an older technique of unordered list items.

This is just one example of how b4 takes a more wholistic approach to every aspect of their framework. I don't fault foundation at all and it probably has to due with the talent of the core b4 team as well as the massive community that they have, but I can't see a use case where I'd choose foundation over b4.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#50

Post by neovive »

I currently use Bootstrap, but have been looking at Bourbon recently along with it's suite of components (Neat, Bitters and Refills). It offers a nice set of mixins for semantic grids and common components. My only concern is working with other developers where Bootstrap is almost a common language.
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