Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth • Hacker News Board

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#41

Post by skylan_q » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:19 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #28

skylan_q wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twenty three paragraphs but no message. The message is "tax the rich".

No, it's not. The message is "This is my experience." I think much of the HN community is accustomed to a style of discourse that deals in big ideas with immediate applications: "This is where tech is going." "How I hacked the YC interview process and got in." "Here's what's wrong with the Javascript dependency mess." Much of the world doesn't think this way, though. For much of the world, their goal is to be heard ,…

The author said as much in her last sentence: "It’s the work I want to own." Upward mobility is largely a myth www.buzzfeed.com

To say it's just a story about her experience is subversive, to say the least.

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#42

Post by gearoidoc » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:22 PM UTC

pjlegato wrote: post #38

The headline ("Two College Degrees Later, I Was Still Picking Kale For Rich People") is a statement of disappointed entitlement, of outrage over a belief that some implicit social contract has not been fulfilled. The reality is that just having "a degree" in a generic sense is no longer the magical ticket to a middle class lifestyle that it was in 1960. It's become too common and is no longer much of a differentiator…

I agree with you with one caveat: there really was a social contract in place that said something along the lines of "Finish third level and you'll walk into a job thats better than flipping burgers".

That contract has been broken. I think it was stupid to begin with but it was a message very clearly sent from generations, society, government that went before. As you say, it still is.

So does the writer have reason to be aggrieved? I think so. However, at some stage in an adults life they need to do some critical thinking and independently decide whats the optimal way to climb the pay ladder (legally).

That critical thinking is something that is simply not taught in schools. Perhaps its not teachable at all.

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#43

Post by x5n1 » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:22 PM UTC

skylan_q wrote: post #34

x5n1 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is the wrong message, but that's what happens in constant class warfare society. They screw us we screw them, and on and on it goes.

Many messages could be inferred but the title gave more than enough subtext to give the author's/publisher's intent. What I gathered from this is that the author is making bad career choices and people in her family are prone to making bad choices. She can't handle a woman laughing at her, so she decides to be a writer like her father. Seems like not growing up and having poor decision-making skills is what's stoppin…

> author is making bad career choices and people in her family are prone to making bad choices.

It's the standard mantra however it's not true. The reason it's not true is that there is a labor market. The labor market can be generalized as being controlled by a few variables. Those variables are significantly in greater control of those with money than those without money.

Upward mobility is possible if and only if you can provide services that are valued highly, and when some labor is valued highly then those with money who have their hands deep in the political economy try to find ways of reducing the cost by for instance lobbying the government to increase the number of people getting educated in those fields, increasing research and development to try to automate those jobs, buying more technology to reduce the cost, increasing immigration and so on.

So yes you can try to get ahead, but it's a fact that the deck is stacked against you. Those with money want to get richer and they know they do it by exploiting people by paying them as little and making as much money from whatever they produce and keep that it in their pockets rather than paying for them anything higher than the market will bear, and even then we find them colluding with each other as in the case of Apple and Google to not compete with each other lest they drive up the cost of employment.

So yes your advice is common fare, but few people get ahead and that's because the people with money always working to keep it that way... and increase the skew.

Even now they are selling the idiot masses the dreams of automation while anyone with any sense knows automation is horrible for upward mobility and a way for those with money to end class war once and for all in their favor. Yet the masses have been seduced to allow it to happen. If they were thinking logically they would be like Luddites and resist it with all that they have disposal.

But then the counter argument is that something might happen that makes the system work after all, for instance minimum income which will then be determined by continued class warfare after this battle is over, which again is on the side of those with capital, or Capitalists.

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#44

Post by skylan_q » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:23 PM UTC

NhanH wrote: post #14

The topic itself is worth discussing. However I'm not actually sure why this specific article was the one being picked for a second chance. It's one long life story (stories?), and there is nothing in it supporting either the title or subtitle. Yes, her upbringing was bad, but I wanted to know what happened personally to her after graduating that she's where she is now. Or even better: what exactly could have helped…

However I'm not actually sure why this specific article was the one being picked for a second chance.

You must be new to the geekosphere, so let me answer that for you: People like to white knight visible minorities and women while also pretending that everyone can do what they like for a living and that the rich should foot the bill for it.

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#45

Post by home_boi » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:23 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #28

skylan_q wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twenty three paragraphs but no message. The message is "tax the rich".

No, it's not. The message is "This is my experience." I think much of the HN community is accustomed to a style of discourse that deals in big ideas with immediate applications: "This is where tech is going." "How I hacked the YC interview process and got in." "Here's what's wrong with the Javascript dependency mess." Much of the world doesn't think this way, though. For much of the world, their goal is to be heard ,…

Did anyone else expect at least a tiny blurb about the difficulties of finding other opportunities?

I feel like that is central to the topic.

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#46

Post by amsha » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:24 PM UTC

In my experience, writing (or any other art) is maybe the most downwardly-mobile profession there is. The supply of artists far outstrips the demand for art, and getting your first job often depends on proximity to industry gatekeepers. I can't speak specifically for the publishing industry, but in film and television people tend to get writing jobs through personal connections.

The four paths I've seen for people who make it in film/tv:

* Have a family member who gets you your first job.

* Have rich parents who completely subsidize your work for a few years and provide anonymous funding for your first feature film.

* Have upper-middle class parents who partially subsidize your work for a few years, and get ready to be an assistant for 3-25 years while you build connections with the business bros that determine your future.

* Have lower-middle class parents. Be extraordinarily driven and ignore all material needs while you win festivals and get noticed.

The lower you are on the list, the more effort it takes to maximize your probability of success. Realistically, almost no one makes it from the bottom category.

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#47

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:25 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #3

eitally wrote: post #2

I think this article is important and useful, but the title she chose is misleading. The content has absolutely nothing to do with higher education, or either correlative or causative connection to her employment with Instacart. Social mobility is an interesting research area, and it's important to be aware that most people who claim bootstrapping out of poverty is easy are the folks who've never been in poverty or w…

Authors at media publications usually don't get to choose titles, so let's not assume she chose it. We'll use the subtitle for now (shortened to fit the limit). If anyone has a better idea, we can change it again. By the way, we put this article in the second-chance pool (described at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10705926 and the other links there) and removed the penalty normally applied to buzzfeed.com. We…

[deleted]

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#48

Post by skylan_q » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:25 PM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #6

TL;DR Why is it a myth?

Find one example of a poor person working hard and becoming rich! You can't! Ergo, myth.

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#49

Post by skylan_q » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:27 PM UTC

amsha wrote: post #46

In my experience, writing (or any other art) is maybe the most downwardly-mobile profession there is. The supply of artists far outstrips the demand for art, and getting your first job often depends on proximity to industry gatekeepers. I can't speak specifically for the publishing industry, but in film and television people tend to get writing jobs through personal connections. The four paths I've seen for people wh…

Serious question: Do you feel that society should be re-adjusted/obligated in some way to make more upwardly-mobile paths for writers?

Re: Buying groceries for rich people, I realized upward mobility is largely a myth

#50

Post by gearoidoc » Fri, Mar 25, 2016, 10:29 PM UTC

skylan_q wrote: post #44

NhanH wrote: post #14

The topic itself is worth discussing. However I'm not actually sure why this specific article was the one being picked for a second chance. It's one long life story (stories?), and there is nothing in it supporting either the title or subtitle. Yes, her upbringing was bad, but I wanted to know what happened personally to her after graduating that she's where she is now. Or even better: what exactly could have helped…

However I'm not actually sure why this specific article was the one being picked for a second chance. You must be new to the geekosphere, so let me answer that for you: People like to white knight visible minorities and women while also pretending that everyone can do what they like for a living and that the rich should foot the bill for it.

Or, I dunno, maybe it makes for an enjoyable read.