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Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

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Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#41

Post by digi_owl »

brenschluss wrote: post #38
digi_owl wrote: post #36

I think another change is needed for spreadsheets to be a more reliable tool. Right now a sheet is a full document thing. Meaning that it starts with A1 in top left, and spreads out from there. but what if you could break a "sheet" down into units? So that you can have say a constants unit, with its own A1 to whatever as needed, and then another unit, perhaps called results, that hold the formula in their own A1 to w…

That's what different worksheets are for.

Yes and no.

Yes you can do it with worksheets, but no its not quite what i am talking about because worksheets can only be on screen one at a time.

Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#42

Post by zyxley »

digi_owl wrote: post #36

I think another change is needed for spreadsheets to be a more reliable tool. Right now a sheet is a full document thing. Meaning that it starts with A1 in top left, and spreads out from there. but what if you could break a "sheet" down into units? So that you can have say a constants unit, with its own A1 to whatever as needed, and then another unit, perhaps called results, that hold the formula in their own A1 to w…

This is literally exactly what Numbers.app on OS X does.

Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#43

Post by michaelwww »

This article reminded me of an interesting video by Chris Granger, co-author of the Light Table code editor, titled "In Search of Tomorrow: What does programming look like in 10 years?" He's designing a visual/code block hybrid editor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZQoAKJPbh8

Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#44

Post by digi_owl »

zyxley wrote: post #42
digi_owl wrote: post #36

I think another change is needed for spreadsheets to be a more reliable tool. Right now a sheet is a full document thing. Meaning that it starts with A1 in top left, and spreads out from there. but what if you could break a "sheet" down into units? So that you can have say a constants unit, with its own A1 to whatever as needed, and then another unit, perhaps called results, that hold the formula in their own A1 to w…

This is literally exactly what Numbers.app on OS X does.

And its stuck to OSX, yay...

Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#45

Post by brenschluss »

digi_owl wrote: post #41
brenschluss wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what different worksheets are for.

Yes and no. Yes you can do it with worksheets, but no its not quite what i am talking about because worksheets can only be on screen one at a time.

Good point, but I'd say that could be solved with UI - split-screen dual-worksheet views.

Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#46

Post by keithpeter »

giardini wrote: post #15

I think the more usual form of that phrase is "Spreadsheets are dead, long live spreadsheets!". And that captures the truth of the situation better. Despite all the known weaknesses of spreadsheets, it is sheer hubris to believe that they will be supplanted by reactive programming (or databases, or anything else for that matter). It seems that users will give up their spreadsheets only when they are pried from their…

"Quite simply, we do not think the way we think we think. Human cognition is built on complex mechanisms that inherently sacrifice some accuracy for speed. Speed in thinking was the overriding evolutionary force for our hunter ancestors, and although occasional errors caused the loss of hunters, new hunters were inexpensive and fun to make."

Quote from

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0802.3457v1.pdf

accessed via the first of your links. Excellent quote.

Thanks for these links, much interesting material.

Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#47

Post by robotresearcher »

ebiester wrote: post #5
wrong_variable wrote: post #2

Spreadsheets are optimized for data entry. Try entering CVS data manually using a text editor. Without Excel there would be no way for my sales/marketing team to give me valuable data to process at the backend. If you have been doing programming in excel for the past 20 years then you are simply a fool - sorry.

You would be surprised how many people have done this. The average office worker doesn't have a development environment on their computer, but they have Excel, and they have a coworker who was a whiz who said, "Did you know you could do this?" They just kept automating task after task, silently, without the IT department ever knowing. 90% of them never thought of it as coding, and 10% realized they could make more mo…

And all these little macros could be one of the largest sources of increased productivity attributable to computers in history. Maybe even _the_ largest. I'm completely serious.

I've seen office workflows sped up by 20X or more with a little 1-2-3 or Excel macro hacking. Everyday minor miracles to the people who previously slaved at manually munging data. A student intern spends a few hours one day on macros, and the office staff each save three hours every day for years to come.

The spreadsheet has always and will always be the killer app of the PC.

Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#49

Post by nokome »

giardini wrote: post #15

I think the more usual form of that phrase is "Spreadsheets are dead, long live spreadsheets!". And that captures the truth of the situation better. Despite all the known weaknesses of spreadsheets, it is sheer hubris to believe that they will be supplanted by reactive programming (or databases, or anything else for that matter). It seems that users will give up their spreadsheets only when they are pried from their…

Thanks for the comment. "Spreadsheets are dead, long live spreadsheets!" does actually capture the intent of the article more accurately. But I used "..., long live reactive programming environments!" because I wanted to emphasise the point that spreadsheets are actually reactive programming environments. The article isn't try to suggest that the spreadsheet interface is going to be replaced. Rather is says that by combining it with a "code-based" approach we might be able to create a whole lot of benefits for testability, audit-ability and reproducibility.

Re: Stencila – Spreadsheet-like live reactive programming environment

#50

Post by dang »

wrong_variable wrote: post #2

Spreadsheets are optimized for data entry. Try entering CVS data manually using a text editor. Without Excel there would be no way for my sales/marketing team to give me valuable data to process at the backend. If you have been doing programming in excel for the past 20 years then you are simply a fool - sorry.

> If you have been doing programming in excel for the past 20 years then you are simply a fool - sorry.

Please don't post acerbic dismissals to HN. It lowers the quality of discourse here, whether your point is right or wrong.

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