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On Marrying the Wrong Person

thebookoflife.org

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Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#41

Post by hammock »

grahamburger wrote: post #27
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement of a bunch of points in the article): if someone is behaving irrationally, 99% of the time its because they are subconciously insecure about something. How about the possibility that they are tired of their partner? The irrationality might come from the fact that they are bound to them (e.g. marriage) and feel pressure to not break that ap…

But of course you could take a step back and ask why they're tired of their partner. Sometimes that's a result of an internal insecurity, too. Put another way, you might say that a person who is 'tired' of their partner is in some perhaps fixable way insecure about the relationship itself, of which they are a part.

So if every (or most) relationships are fixable, what does it matter who you pick as partner?

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#42

Post by a3n »

kazinator wrote: post #13
AznHisoka wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference? If he/she is wrong for you, who cares if he/she isn't right for someone else? Very little consolation (if any) if he/she turns out to be the right person for someone else.

What's the difference? Hmm, perhaps a car analogy. "Wrong car for you" might be a two-seater sporty thing, and you have five kids. "Wrong car for anyone" has brakes that suddenly stop working.

My ex wife was a Volvo station wagon whose brakes stopped working.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#43

Post by LeifCarrotson »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #15

Here's an uncomfortable thought: an effective 1-to-1 mapping between men and women probably doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is that women are primarily interested in a top smaller percentage of high value men (this is called hypergamy). This smaller group of desirable men would most like to have multiple mates (this is called polygamy). Marriage, and the accompanying culture and customs, 'corrects' this by tryi…

Your same arguments apply in the other direction, you know. It's not just women interested in the most desireable men, it's also that men are interested in the most desirable women.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#44

Post by ph0rque »

hammock wrote: post #41
grahamburger wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But of course you could take a step back and ask why they're tired of their partner. Sometimes that's a result of an internal insecurity, too. Put another way, you might say that a person who is 'tired' of their partner is in some perhaps fixable way insecure about the relationship itself, of which they are a part.

So if every (or most) relationships are fixable, what does it matter who you pick as partner?

You've discovered the secret! It doesn't.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#45

Post by rayiner »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #15

Here's an uncomfortable thought: an effective 1-to-1 mapping between men and women probably doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is that women are primarily interested in a top smaller percentage of high value men (this is called hypergamy). This smaller group of desirable men would most like to have multiple mates (this is called polygamy). Marriage, and the accompanying culture and customs, 'corrects' this by tryi…

I don't think your theory jives with the evidence that men and women are equally likely to initiate breakups of non-marriage relationships: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-more-likely-than-m....

If it was about access to better mates, you'd expect to see the disparity extend to non-marriage relationships too, but you don't.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#46

Post by exstudent2 »

While this post almost touched on the issue I believe the number one reason marriage is in trouble in the 21st century is due to media and societal glamorization of hedonism and selfishness.

Not mentioned in the post is the value that can only come from having a single mate for life and working through problems together (lightly mentioned as "growing together"). This idea became abhorrent in the 20th century, driven in large part by advertising but also the culture of the baby boomers.

Rock stars and groupies were glamorized. Men had immense media pressure on them to have multiple mates. Toward the end of the century women had the same pressure put on them with media like Sex and The City and Friends.

The documentary Century Of Self covers a lot of the root manipulation that created this situation, but the end result is a feeling of failure and shame for people with low partner counts.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#47

Post by graeme »

rayiner wrote: post #45
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #15

Here's an uncomfortable thought: an effective 1-to-1 mapping between men and women probably doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is that women are primarily interested in a top smaller percentage of high value men (this is called hypergamy). This smaller group of desirable men would most like to have multiple mates (this is called polygamy). Marriage, and the accompanying culture and customs, 'corrects' this by tryi…

I don't think your theory jives with the evidence that men and women are equally likely to initiate breakups of non-marriage relationships: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-more-likely-than-m... . If it was about access to better mates, you'd expect to see the disparity extend to non-marriage relationships too, but you don't.

I checked the paper, an unpublished draft. The sample size of non-marital breakups is 279. Also, the question asked was "who wanted the breakup more" not "who initiated the breakup".

85 breakups were reported as mutual. That leaves only 194 breakups which were reported as wanted more by one side.

112 is the total number of breakups reported as wanted more by the woman. 82 is the number of breakups reported as wanted more by the man.

112/194 = 57.7%. Of a very small sample. With the wrong question asked.

Is this the best data we've got? If so, I am not sure we can conclude anything about breakup initiation outside of marriage.

Link to the paper: http://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld_gender_of_breaku...

Note: It's not clear to me how the author got 56% and 53.4% as the weighted breakup wanted by women rate. It's possible I've made an error. But the Huffington post headline certainly seems unwarranted.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#48

Post by StavrosK »

ph0rque wrote: post #44
hammock wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if every (or most) relationships are fixable, what does it matter who you pick as partner?

You've discovered the secret! It doesn't.

It may not matter whether you can make it work, but it'll matter if you're having fun while you're trying...

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#49

Post by epimetheus »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #20
epimetheus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but at the end of the day they think they ought to have a better mate, and are fed up with their current one I don't know if this is true across the board. I don't feel that way entirely, more along the lines of "I'm stuck in this situation; kids, a marriage where I get no real benefit, I just want to be free and do what I want and not have to bow to their whims." I know several people, right now, that have been div…

Maybe an age thing, hormones do die down I hear! But I doubt these people you're talking about (yourself included) are all celibate though. > "I'm stuck in this situation; kids, a marriage where I get no real benefit, I just want to be free and do what I want and not have to bow to their whims." Unless you're celibate, then this is equivalent to wanting to be with another mate, as that is what will happen. Not to dis…

>Unless you're celibate

Pretty much, rough marriage, sex with each other isn't something they want even if you do. Needless to say, more than 12 months go by between 'action.'

Right now we are together for finances and the kiddo. But I still have to deal with all of the negatives. I might hook up with others once everything is normal, but really the primary motivator isn't sex or a better mate, it's just freedom to better my career and myself. Right now it's all about her career and me dealing with the kid.

Re: On Marrying the Wrong Person

#50

Post by stvswn »

santaclause33 wrote: post #11

Three notes I would add: 1) In response to the "know yourself" bullet: I met my now wife at 15 - we learned a lot about ourselves between then and when we married at age 22. But we were pretty much committed to marrying by age 18, even though we learned a lot after. You can learn with another person. 2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement of a bunch of points in the article): if…

Your #1 hits home for me. Similar timeframe -- met at 16, married at 23, have been married happily for 7 years. We aren't the same people as when we first started dating.

It's hard for me to argue, rationally, that I happened to meet my one-and-only soulmate in high school. I think I got lucky because I married someone who valued marriage the same way I do. We both consider the marriage itself to be more important than either of us individually. We both came from stable families, so we have good examples to follow. It might not sound romantic, but we both could have probably committed fully to any number of people. As it stands, we committed to each other and the sum is greater than the parts.

I know other people are in tough situations, and I'm not saying that everyone should just "suck it up." I just think that marriages are more resilient when each person is secure in the knowledge that the other isn't considering leaving. It's hard to commit fully if divorce is an option on the table. When your thinking goes in that direction, you start resenting your partner for depriving you of that other life.

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