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High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

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Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#41

Post by lmm »

mhurron wrote: post #37
lmm wrote: post #33

The tendency to talk about salary upfront is a good one for both sides - it avoids wasting everyone's time when the expectations simply don't align. It does need to be mutual though. I expect employers to include some salary guidance in a job ad. And if they claim to offer market rates, I expect them to live up to that.

> It does need to be mutual though. No it doesn't. The hiring company needs to be upfront, but the candidate doesn't. The company has a budget range set for the position whereas the candidate is asking the question 'Am I willing to do this job for the money they are offering me.'

Disagree. Most of the time the company could in fact pay 2x what they thought was the top of their range for an exceptional candidate. It's a rare candidate who's in a position to take an exceptional job for 1/2 what they thought was the bottom of their range.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#42

Post by skewart »

"Say, ‘I’m open to a salary commensurate with the job,” recommended Blake Nations, a former recruiter who was laid off and then founded Over50JobBoard.com. “And if they keep going, ask: ‘What do you expect to pay someone with my experience and education for this position?'"

This. If you're asked early on just flip the question back to them.

Companies don't publish salaries for jobs because they're afraid of turning people off from applying to the job in the first place. They know applicants are more likely to take a lower offer after they've invested time into the process and maybe have a little rapport with the interviewers. You can use the exact same strategy as a job seeker. Companies can be more likely to accept a higher ask after they've put resources into interviewing you and gotten to know you a bit.

That said, an honest chat about expectations early on - where the hirer says roughly how much they're looking to pay and asks if it's something you'd be interested in - can be a really nice way to save everyone's time.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#43

Post by Spooky23 »

pc86 wrote: post #23

> After more than 20 years as an electronics engineer, Pete Edwards reached the low six-figure pay level. Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures? Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of money (3x mean personal income in the US, and ~1.75x mean HHI, give or take), but I'd expect most senior folks in any engineering field to be in the mid 100k range if not pushing 185ish. > Time and again, h…

At 45 you become untouchable. Too old to be young, too young to be old. How many 50 year olds do you see in SV companies?

I knew a guy who was about 50, brilliant, brilliant engineer working for one of the big IT players. Well respected and trusted advisor to many customers. He got vaporized in some big restructuring that hit his division.

Because of non-compete and what he did, he was basically out of work for almost a year, and was stuck in career purgatory for a few years doing random contract work.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#44

Post by pmoriarty »

tossaway1 wrote: post #35
pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

As someone who's regularly on the other side of the hiring (i.e. negotiating with candidates), I often prefer to have some insight into a candidate's rough salary requirements early in the process -- especially if it's someone that might demand more than I could offer. The hiring process is a huge time commitment for both me and the candidate -- I don't want all that time to be wasted if we could identify early on th…

So just tell the candidate what the salary range for the position is. If that number's a dealbreaker for them, they'll let you know. Why does it always have to be the candidate who shows their cards first?

Personally, for me there are no salary-based dealbreakers. There's always room for negotiation, after both sides determine there's a good fit.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#46

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

beau26 wrote: post #8
alvern wrote: post #2

Sigh, paywall

Text: After more than 20 years as an electronics engineer, Pete Edwards reached the low six-figure pay level. Now, as he looks for a job following a layoff, he finds that salary success a burden. Although his experience includes the sought-after field of 3-D printing, the 53-year-old hasn’t been able to land a permanent full-time job. Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a questio…

"ensures that candidates have reasonable expectations"

"a quick way to cull the large numbers of candidates for open jobs"

"holds down wages because now the jobs are being filled by people with lower salary expectations"

"U.S. employers continue to hold the line on wages"

"looking ahead and saying they want to keep the escalation of labor costs from going up in a way that will put pressure on earnings"

"47% of chief financial offers said they plan to work to lower or control labor costs this year, by taming compensation growth"

gauge applicants’ “level of reality"

Very interesting language in this piece.

Between culling applicants, testing their level of "reality", taming their unrealistic expectations, and holding the line, I think we can speculate that perhaps CFOs are panicking about rising wage pressure, using propaganda pieces like this one to reassure themselves, and trying hard to pressure applicants to be "realistic."

If employers want to try to save money by flying budget instead of first, they should be encouraged to do that. Maybe eventually they'll understand how that works out for them.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#47

Post by skewart »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #40
cushychicken wrote: post #22

The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter. It firmly pigeonholes your next salary to your current one, instead of the value you bring to a company. Patrick MacKenzie's article on salary negotiations is excellent (I would maybe even say "required") reading on the subject.

Recruiter here. I think: "The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter." is pretty simplistic and naive. You simply have to figure out how to get what you want. If you want 180 and currently make 140 and a recruiter asks what you make, just say something like "my expectation for my next role is around 180". You say that and you both probably get what you want and save…

Exactly. There is never a reason to tell anyone your current salary, just what you're looking for now.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#48

Post by zippergz »

pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

I've found this to be an excellent way to waste a bunch of time by getting far along in the process, only to find out near the end that the company won't make an offer that's anywhere near my requirements. While I don't like being the first to name a number, I also haven't found putting the discussion off until the end of the process to be beneficial.

I've been on the hiring side as a manager in a number of companies, and I've NEVER seen a situation where a candidate was so uniquely awesome that the company was willing to make an offer drastically larger than their normal range for that role. A bit more? Sure. Some more stock or something? Often. But not, say, 50% more salary than anyone else at that level is getting.

After many years in this industry on both the candidate and hiring manager side, I believe that it's in everyone's best interest to make sure you can at least get in the right ballpark early in the process before you waste everyone time.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#49

Post by noddingham »

tossaway1 wrote: post #35
pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

As someone who's regularly on the other side of the hiring (i.e. negotiating with candidates), I often prefer to have some insight into a candidate's rough salary requirements early in the process -- especially if it's someone that might demand more than I could offer. The hiring process is a huge time commitment for both me and the candidate -- I don't want all that time to be wasted if we could identify early on th…

Then you should share the range for the position and let the candidate decide if it's worth continuing.
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