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Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

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Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#41

Post by halviti »

tptacek wrote: post #22

The craft was used in controversial US ‘rendition’ missions This is apparently true, but misleading. The specific plane we're discussing was used by the CIA, but by this point had been transferred to DOJ for some time. It's also misleading to use the word "rendition" as a shorthand for "extraordinary rendition" (which is itself newspeak for "kidnapping"). "Rendition" itself is simply the process of effectuating extra…

To me I could really care less what the plane was used for in the past.

A plane flying from anywhere that doesn't file a flight plan is just plain wrong, especially when it crosses foreign airspace.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#42

Post by strictnein »

SuperChihuahua wrote: post #29
vlunkr wrote: post #10

I really hope they pardon him eventually. I could be wrong, but don't most americans support what he did? EDIT: you are probably all correct, plenty of people don't understand/care who he is or what he stands for. I still wish the government would recognize that the NSA is acting unconstitutionally and he called them out on it.

Are we sure that he didn't leak anything else to the Russians?

No, no one is sure about that. It's very unlikely that the Russians don't have copies of everything he took, unless you think he and Greenwald, et al are somehow masters of infosec that could withstand the actions of the FSB, SVR, etc.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#43

Post by krapp »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #8

One thing I don't understand - why would the US care? Why expend resources on trying to capture Snowden? He's basically harmless at this point - he's passed all the information he had to few journalists (which would be a better target now) and there's no way anyone will ever let him near anything more secret than grandma's cookies recipe. Besides petty vengeance, what's the point?

> Besides petty vengeance, what's the point?

Ignoring Snowden would imply that espionage isn't a crime, or that in effect it only has a statute of limitations amounting to a misdemeanor offense, which isn't really a precedent any state wants to set.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#44

Post by wavefunction »

tptacek wrote: post #22

The craft was used in controversial US ‘rendition’ missions This is apparently true, but misleading. The specific plane we're discussing was used by the CIA, but by this point had been transferred to DOJ for some time. It's also misleading to use the word "rendition" as a shorthand for "extraordinary rendition" (which is itself newspeak for "kidnapping"). "Rendition" itself is simply the process of effectuating extra…

I don't see why you quibble over the use of 'rendition,' then turn around and minimize the generally understood. If he was just being extradited via official and lawful process, shouldn't that be the term, rather than apparently grabbed via secret flights and skullduggery?

You also can't say what the intentions of the US government were regarding bringing Snowden back to US soil, and even if that were the case it doesn't seem to mean much especially as it seems the Chicago Police are operating a "black-site" on US soil in contravention of the Constitution.

In fact, I would say the evidence is far stronger for the supposition that Snowden was intended to be "extraordinarily" renditioned than simply and lawfully extradited and your post subjects are ill-argued.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#45

Post by tptacek »

halviti wrote: post #41
tptacek wrote: post #22

The craft was used in controversial US ‘rendition’ missions This is apparently true, but misleading. The specific plane we're discussing was used by the CIA, but by this point had been transferred to DOJ for some time. It's also misleading to use the word "rendition" as a shorthand for "extraordinary rendition" (which is itself newspeak for "kidnapping"). "Rendition" itself is simply the process of effectuating extra…

To me I could really care less what the plane was used for in the past. A plane flying from anywhere that doesn't file a flight plan is just plain wrong, especially when it crosses foreign airspace.

Why do you assume that the UK (and all the other European countries this plane flew over) weren't involved in coordinating this flight?

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#46

Post by tptacek »

wavefunction wrote: post #44
tptacek wrote: post #22

The craft was used in controversial US ‘rendition’ missions This is apparently true, but misleading. The specific plane we're discussing was used by the CIA, but by this point had been transferred to DOJ for some time. It's also misleading to use the word "rendition" as a shorthand for "extraordinary rendition" (which is itself newspeak for "kidnapping"). "Rendition" itself is simply the process of effectuating extra…

I don't see why you quibble over the use of 'rendition,' then turn around and minimize the generally understood. If he was just being extradited via official and lawful process, shouldn't that be the term, rather than apparently grabbed via secret flights and skullduggery? You also can't say what the intentions of the US government were regarding bringing Snowden back to US soil, and even if that were the case it doe…

So if I understand this comment correctly, you're suggesting that the DOJ was going to fly Snowden to CPD Homan Square?

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#48

Post by raverbashing »

halviti wrote: post #41
tptacek wrote: post #22

The craft was used in controversial US ‘rendition’ missions This is apparently true, but misleading. The specific plane we're discussing was used by the CIA, but by this point had been transferred to DOJ for some time. It's also misleading to use the word "rendition" as a shorthand for "extraordinary rendition" (which is itself newspeak for "kidnapping"). "Rendition" itself is simply the process of effectuating extra…

To me I could really care less what the plane was used for in the past. A plane flying from anywhere that doesn't file a flight plan is just plain wrong, especially when it crosses foreign airspace.

The quote is "claim the flight, travelling well above the standard aviation height at 45,000 feet and without a filed flight plan"

If it flew below FL660 it should be inside controlled airspace, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class#United_Kingdom

However the flight plan might have been filled through defense channels rather than civilian ones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_plan

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#49

Post by ssharp »

deedubaya wrote: post #26
vlunkr wrote: post #10

I really hope they pardon him eventually. I could be wrong, but don't most americans support what he did? EDIT: you are probably all correct, plenty of people don't understand/care who he is or what he stands for. I still wish the government would recognize that the NSA is acting unconstitutionally and he called them out on it.

I don't think most American's support what he did, because he's been painted a traitor by the government and media. It's a matter of perception and a lack of understanding.

Or people don't see the issue as black and white, where he either did nothing wrong or everything he did was wrong.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#50

Post by goldenkey »

glogla wrote: post #9
TeMPOraL wrote: post #8

One thing I don't understand - why would the US care? Why expend resources on trying to capture Snowden? He's basically harmless at this point - he's passed all the information he had to few journalists (which would be a better target now) and there's no way anyone will ever let him near anything more secret than grandma's cookies recipe. Besides petty vengeance, what's the point?

> Besides petty vengeance, what's the point? Yeah. Besides petty vengeance, there's no point.

Yeah, there's no governments predicated on petty vengeance..cough cough
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