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Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

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Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#41

Post by amazon_not »

kwadwon wrote: post #28
sithadmin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Detained. Do your couriers really know what they are getting themselves into? I do, but that's mostly because I travel a fair amount, and have some indirect professional exposure to international trade compliance/regulations. That's also precisely why I would probably never participate in a scheme like this, especially when travelling to countries with flaky civil or human rights records (in this case, Nigeria in pa…

Yes, for the most part the travelers are people who go back and forth between Nigeria and US, and Ghana and US often and already practice this behavior, but now have an option to make extra money from it and potentially make it safer than the behavior they practice now.

For you the problem is that once you insert yourself into the process, you will have liabilities.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#42

Post by amazon_not »

How do you handle credit card / PayPal fraud? When I think about it, this is about the best cash out service I can think of. Carders and phishers are going to love you. The goods are going to be out of the country long before anybody notices any fraudulent charges on their accounts. Guess who is going to be left holding the bag?

EDIT: I hope your OPSEC is top notch. Your platform is going to be such a jummy target to all miscreants. Imagine what fun they could have if they had unrestricted access to your backend.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#43

Post by NnamdiJr »

This is really a great idea.

The number of issues surrounding the idea (customs, legal issues, etc.) are obvious, and the discussions around them reminds me of the questions thrown at many of the other major sharing economy start-ups initially (Uber, AirBnB, et al.), but with a good team and some experimentation they will figure them out, as other major startups have done and continue to do.

People who have spent a good chunk of time in countries outside the US, already know people have been informally doing this en masse for a _long_ time. I have family in in West Africa who would be using this years ago if available, and I have lived in Asia, and other countries where every time I travel there are friends and friends of friends who ask me to buy and carry goods on their behalf, in both directions.

To me it seems Shypmate is just creating a formal system for these actions to take place, and if successful, will make it more efficient, useful, and available to more people while extracting some value for themselves (as any startup seeking profitability should).

Good luck to the team. I think there is a lot of potential here.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#44

Post by dragonwriter »

NnamdiJr wrote: post #43

This is really a great idea. The number of issues surrounding the idea (customs, legal issues, etc.) are obvious, and the discussions around them reminds me of the questions thrown at many of the other major sharing economy start-ups initially (Uber, AirBnB, et al.), but with a good team and some experimentation they will figure them out, as other major startups have done and continue to do. People who have spent a g…

> The number of issues surrounding the idea (customs, legal issues, etc.) are obvious, and the discussions around them reminds me of the questions thrown at many of the other major sharing economy start-ups initially (Uber, AirBnB, et al.), but with a good team and some experimentation they will figure them out.

The rules Uber and AirBNB were flouting aren't generally criminal. Smuggling, OTOH...

> People who have spent a good chunk of time in countries outside the US, already know people have been informally doing this en masse for a _long_ time.

People do this into the US informally, too. And its true that many governments don't seem to worry too much about informal importation of items for acquaintances that are within the existing allowances for personal use, but which are actually imported for acquaintances (and, IIRC, many actually have specific allowances for this if the importer is a local citizen, rather than a foreign traveler), technically for trade in that the receiver often ends up reimbursing the importer with perhaps a small premium.

OTOH, its really unlikely that any government is going to turn a blind eye to a massive, commercial, advertised end-run around its customs duties, or treat anyone they catch involved in such an operation gently.

> To me it seems Shypmate is just creating a formal system for these actions to take place

Formalizing informal exchanges often has substantial adverse legal consequences. Observing that gold-digging exists and is visibly practiced doesn't making opening an overt brothel a good idea.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#45

Post by dang »

amazon_not wrote: post #37
dragonwriter wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ghana, like most countries, seems to charge import duties on all imports, with exceptions for narrow sets of preferred imports. Also like most countries, Ghana exempts certain items for personal use of the traveler from this. [0] It really seems like the only way your couriers (who you refer to as "travelers") could avoid import duties in general -- I mean, I assuming that people aren't all purchasing agricultural pa…

> I mean, I assuming that people aren't all purchasing agricultural parts, fishing gear, and other exempt categories of items -- is if the imported goods are being misrepresented as personal use items. Yeah, not so much anything in those categories. " So far, people have been using Shypmate for shoes, weaves, iPhones, laptops, jewelry and other products." You know that part where I said, somebody is going to see the…

Ok, you've made your point repeatedly. In fact, you've posted 17 comments in this thread. That's over the top, even without the overheated rhetoric, so please stop.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#46

Post by biot »

Why not purchase these items via your company, batch them up into pallet-sized shipments, then arrange for commercial air transportation? You can then provide commercial invoices, cover any duty and taxes, have insurance to cover the goods from loss or damage during transport, and (bonus!) comply with the importation laws of the destination country.

I bet that would work out to be less than $25/item and you wouldn't have to count on mules to do your legwork for you.

It might even work out well as a UPS/Fedex competitor, saving shipping costs by batching shipments together and allowing you to expand into other countries. Though I'd be very surprised if this isn't already a solved shipping/logistics problem. It's not like transporting items between countries hasn't been around for centuries already; although existing solutions don't have the novelty your company brings to the table: offloading legal compliance onto your mules.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#47

Post by sambadance »

NnamdiJr wrote: post #43

This is really a great idea. The number of issues surrounding the idea (customs, legal issues, etc.) are obvious, and the discussions around them reminds me of the questions thrown at many of the other major sharing economy start-ups initially (Uber, AirBnB, et al.), but with a good team and some experimentation they will figure them out, as other major startups have done and continue to do. People who have spent a g…

I wish the team luck; but I think that most of that luck will occur if they pivot hard away from their current tactics.

Governments don't really care about informal smuggling (e.g. somebody bringing a laptop with them, and leaving it behind) because it's not happening at scale and it's impossible to police. But governments are going to care deeply about a formalized smuggling organization that beats market prices by evading import duties and VAT.

If this gets any traction, expect all inbound luggage to be searched for anything wrapped in shipmates packaging; and for it to be seized and the individual carrying it to be fined. It won't go well.

And the founders should not expect to ever visit home again... they'll get arrested when they step off the plane.

Re: Shypmate (YC W16) Pays Travelers To Bring Products To Ghana And Nigeria

#50

Post by amazon_not »

dang wrote: post #45
amazon_not wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, I assuming that people aren't all purchasing agricultural parts, fishing gear, and other exempt categories of items -- is if the imported goods are being misrepresented as personal use items. Yeah, not so much anything in those categories. " So far, people have been using Shypmate for shoes, weaves, iPhones, laptops, jewelry and other products." You know that part where I said, somebody is going to see the…

Ok, you've made your point repeatedly. In fact, you've posted 17 comments in this thread. That's over the top, even without the overheated rhetoric, so please stop.

Is there some particular point to tell me to stop hours after I've stopped posting?

Yes, I've posted 17 comments. Each comment has been original, on topic, with a point and I've several times been thanked by the founders for raising important issues. What's the problem with being active and engaged? How on earth can that be considered over the top?

I have no dog in this fight, but I'm genuinely worried something bad will happen if they continue. I'm not even alone in this point of view. Several other posters have noted the same.

As to rhetoric, which part do you consider overheated, and more importantly, wrong?

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