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Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

peternixey.com

41–50 of 108 posts

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#41
post #35

If the poor end of the wealth gap are still better off than 90% of the rest of the world, why does the wealth gap matter? That was my thinking for quite a while. However, the one thing that happens here in the US is that the wealthy have more representation and power in the legal system. Be it federal or local, the systems tend to get slanted against the not-wealthy because the wealthy take over the communications ch…

Even leaving aside rich using their status to solidify their position, consider this: are the policies that maximize GDP and lead to high wealth inequality the same policies that maximize the prosperity of the middle 50% of the population? No economic rule I know of guarantees that to be the case. Wealth isn't created in a vacuum. Wealth can only be created in places with a high level of social order. That social ord…

> No economic rule I know of guarantees that to be the case.

Certainly there is no economic rule, however, I think that most people generally believe that for most of human history it has been the case that at least in the medium-to-long-term, top line growth does accrue pretty cleanly to the middle 50%.

There are certainly some people that are starting to wonder if this is no longer the case but personally I'm always pretty skeptical of "this time it's different!" arguments so am unconvinced by the evidence to date. Who knows what the future will hold though!

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#42
post #21

> It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is, I'm glad he learned empathy in his old age; but keep in mind that he was ruthless, manipulative, exploitative, and caused a lot of long-term damage throughout most of his working life. That's the problem I have with the "rich" - our system (and lack of government…

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Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#44
post #6

This guy put into much better words what I've been thinking for a while. It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is, and wants to continue to use his strength to lift people up instead of feathering his own nest even more. It's when people get the idea that "I'm better, so I deserve better than Them!" that r…

Can you give some examples of the "Really Bad Things" you are thinking of?

Trump elected President.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#45

If the poor end of the wealth gap are still better off than 90% of the rest of the world, why does the wealth gap matter? That was my thinking for quite a while. However, the one thing that happens here in the US is that the wealthy have more representation and power in the legal system. Be it federal or local, the systems tend to get slanted against the not-wealthy because the wealthy take over the communications ch…

There is nothing new in the way the powerful wield more power than the powerless. It's a story older than history.

Slavery is a story older than history too. Just because it is old and ongoing doesn't mean we should ignore it.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#46
post #4

The empathy gap is just one way in which the distribution and flow of capital organizes social relations. My position is that it isn't even the wealth gap that is the issue. The wealth gap is itself just one way in which the distribution and flow of capital organizes social relations. I think it is short-sighted to focus on particular rich people and their exorbitant wealth even though it is a grotesque experience: g…

It may be nitpicking the point, but a lot of this is a non-issue in most cases and you're setting up a false dichotomy with straw-men.

The reason people don't think about a "wealth gap" with their government is multifaceted:

1. The government provides goods and services that they use and since most people gain benefit from it, they don't question the outcome or source. 2. A government as an entity usually doesn't run a surplus, so while they may have a $1T budget, they're running at a deficit, if they were a human, we'd question their spending habit, not be angry or envious. Wealth, by most people's standards is a positive P&L. 3. Since a government runs at a net loss, and provides a net gain to society there isn't a loss of emotional capital towards the government in most people's minds.

Banks, while they make a tidy profit (especially the large banks) don't have what you would consider large amounts of fluid capital either. They take and store your money for later, at some rate; they will also give out loans based on criterion that allow them to make a small sum off of the interest due to the assumption that most people will make regular payments (that's why you have to apply and just don't get the money). The large majority of banking in the USA is actually done through local banking corporation than big box groups, so getting angry at all banks because the folks at Lehman Brothers wear hats on their asses is a gross over generalization.

A standing army, much like the government that runs it, is removed from the capital equation since they are an entity that resides out of the normal checks and balances of a capitalist style society; this is why you see both military and governmental entities under any system that isn't fully Anarchistic. Police don't harass people due to the fact that they are funded, those that harass people do so because they're assholes, we care about people being assholes.

Your definition of capital is even too broad; capital generally implies all physical goods, whether that is money or product is rather immaterial, these things are there no matter the system, even Anarchistic systems have capital. Capitalism on the other hand is an economic system codified generally by the supply & demand curve that most people see in Economics 101; this can be contrasted with Communalism, Agrarianism, Communism, Bazaar/Barter, and various other economic structures. These are inherently separate from governmental systems that the lay-man usually associates with them, such as: Socialism, Democracy, Republics, Anarchism, Oligarchies, and the like.

It comes down to this; people care about others being jerks, it doesn't matter if you have money or not. If you aren't sensitive to the motives of those around you, whether you're doing it out of spite or ignorance, it will be taken like you don't care and spite/anger is a result. The article is pretty darn good at pointing that out, and I would tend to agree. I would also tend towards most people seeing someone with a wealth level that they only see from Powerball and the Lottery, complaining about getting taxed to be the most abhorrent form of pedant whining that could be imagined; or even worse, completely writing off the fact that the system is set up to exponentially reward people with enough capital to take advantage of it. Paul's expose is along those lines, he's defending a system that encourages the top 1% of 1% of our society to expand exponentially while the rest ride the wave and accept the scrap.

Are CEO's really doing 1000x the work as an engineer? Are Angel investors really doing 100x the work of a founder? Should someone playing the stock market really be taxed at a nominal rate nearly half that of someone earning a wage as an engineer, scientist, or even a burger flipper?

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#47

If the poor end of the wealth gap are still better off than 90% of the rest of the world, why does the wealth gap matter? That was my thinking for quite a while. However, the one thing that happens here in the US is that the wealthy have more representation and power in the legal system. Be it federal or local, the systems tend to get slanted against the not-wealthy because the wealthy take over the communications ch…

> If the poor end of the wealth gap are still better off than 90% of the rest of the world, why does the wealth gap matter?

Standard of living increases have come almost exclusively through technological progress. Access to basic survival needs like food (Google "food desert") and shelter (look at rent prices for the past year) is primarily driven by capital speculation by the upper classes.

The repeal of much of the commercial anti-trust regulation in the United States (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/11/cities-e...) enabled capital-consolidating retailers like Walmart to come to a position where they can drive out competitors through predatory pricing (not always noticeable from Walmart's own books because sometimes it is passed down the supply chain). After driving local retailers out of business in some places, as expected some of the speculative expansion does not pay off and Walmart stores have to be closed. Now some regions in the USA are left without access to food: http://time.com/money/4192512/walmart-stores-closing-small-t...

Similarly, anti-development NIMBY policies lobbied for by the upper classes (artificial limit on supply of building sites) combined with the REITs they invest in (impossible for REITs to generate decent returns on B-class housing due to shortage of sites and the huge amount of capital needing to be invested) are the causes responsible for the huge increase in rent prices in major US metropolitan areas.

By far the biggest harm that comes from the wealth gap are the austerity policies pushed by the upper classes to prevent people from having access to education and healthcare. I now need both hands to count the number of acquaintances that have resorted to being sugar babies on Seeking Arrangements or just plain prostitution to help them pay their way through college.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#48

This guy put into much better words what I've been thinking for a while. It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is, and wants to continue to use his strength to lift people up instead of feathering his own nest even more. It's when people get the idea that "I'm better, so I deserve better than Them!" that r…

"because he's empathetic to people"

Given how easily manipulated people are, and us being people, you may be a little over optimistic in your evaluation of reality.

Adding another level of indirection nobody cares whats accomplished, just whats signaled.

So you're cool because he's got good PR that signals well, but assuming the world will be OK because he actually is doing stuff. That might not turn out so well.

Note I'm not interesting in arguing about Bill in particular, but as a general problem across the entire culture, because, after all, thats how inequality is measured.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#49
post #36

Capitalism works best when two parties have similar information, resources, etc. Cell phone contracts are a perfect example. They've had teams of lawyers, arbitration and everything thing else on their side and lobbyists to write the laws to fit them. I can sign it or leave it. I also remember democracy isn't two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. So I'm not saying socialism's the answer either. I think t…

Read Peter Thiel. The perfect capitalism of frictionless competition and complete transparency is the enemy of its own intent. In highly competitive and transparent markets, profits are driven asymptotically to zero. Groceries, gasoline, airline tickets... these are extremely low-margin industries. Capitalism succeeds only when capitalism fails - when monopolies (global or local) appear that permit high-friction (and…

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Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#50

I don't understand the point he makes about forced discretionary spending. I have never bought a round of drinks at a bar, except in foreign countries where a round cost me less than $5. I don't ever feel like there's discretionary spending I'm forced to take. I either can afford it or I can't, and if I can't, I don't buy it and I don't feel guilty about it. I buy other's drinks all the time. Never a whole round. Tha…

"More generally, as you rise up the social ranks, you have to get more and more comfortable with gross differences in wealth and learn to be able to be comfortable with and accommodate socially those with so much more or so much less than you. This guy never seemed to learn that trick."

I am struggling with this as my income increases. My friends are looking at me like I am Bill Gates. Any advice?

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