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Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

nytimes.com

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Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#41

Post by protomyth »

davidw wrote: post #6

The real fix to this is to make sure that people brought over with an H1-B can easily change jobs. That way they're not beholden to some low-wage job, and companies that bring people in merely for low wages will face high rates of churn.

No, the real fix is to make sure the actual goals of the program align with what actually happens. At this point, saying that each H1-B worker must make $117,700[1] or more to prove they are skilled beyond US workers seems to be a fair change. After all, if you can hire US citizens cheaper, you are not fulfilling the goals of the program[2].

1) 10x poverty guidelines in US for 2015.

2) http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#42

Post by davidw »

diogenescynic wrote: post #31
aianus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone What about the guys on H1B's who are now earning 4x more than they were back in India? Are they not people too?

Of course they are people, but I think the US government should be more concerned with protecting its own citizens (voters), not the international community. The US government has an obligation to protect its own citizens above all others.

The best way to ensure that no immigrants take urrr jawbs is to have a shitty economy. It worked great in reducing Mexican immigration during the recent recession. Of course, it caused a lot of damage for many people in the US, too.

Perhaps the best answer for everyone is to worry about growing the pie, rather than keeping people out.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#44

Post by wfo »

utternerd wrote: post #38

If that replacement can serve the same purpose, and give approximately the same value to the company, why should the native and/or higher-waged person expect to have priority?

Because you can always truck in a slew of desperate people willing to work for lower and lower wages until we descend into de facto slavery (not even being hyperbolic, that's essentially what many sweatshops are in some countries, look at hypercapitalist Dubai where companies retain control of 'employee's passports and refuse to return them so employees cannot escape the country/near-fatal working conditions).

We've compromised as a society and said sure slave labor will exist but not in the US, if a company wants to benefit from the infrastructure and educated workforce and culture and benefits that American society has developed they have to be decent corporate citizens and treat workers with a modicum of respect. You're suggesting bringing slave labor here, I'd suggest rather we sprint in the opposite direction and ban it everywhere through e.g. making the import of goods made through slave labor a criminal offense.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#45

Post by fra »

diogenescynic wrote: post #23
davidw wrote: post #6

The real fix to this is to make sure that people brought over with an H1-B can easily change jobs. That way they're not beholden to some low-wage job, and companies that bring people in merely for low wages will face high rates of churn.

In my opinion, the real fix is to make the H-1B 'lottery' into an auction. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies like Cognizant and Infosys that game the immigration system by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible.

Whether 65,000 is the right number or not isn't the important bit. While it may seem unpalatable on its face, granting the visa to the candidates with the highest paying offer is the simplest, least prone to abuse way I can think of to bring about the stated purpose of the H1B visa.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#46

Post by protomyth »

outworlder wrote: post #39
crapolasplatter wrote: post #30

Wait A second something doesn't make sense here. I thought the main reason for H1-B visas was because there aren't enough American workers? So why would they get rid of American workers they already had ,that have been doing the job? Surely it couldn't be because they lower pay of the H1-B workers?

Is, it is the main reason, and the purpose of the visa. It doesn't mean that all companies use it for that purpose, despite what they say. Note that, according to the article, the laid off people seem to be (relatively speaking) older, with multiple years in the company. It is likely that their salaries are higher than what management would like them to be. My theory makes the prediction that the H1 holders are young…

> Is, it is the main reason, and the purpose of the visa. It doesn't mean that all companies use it for that purpose, despite what they say.

Yes, it is the main purpose: http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm

If the companies are not using it for that purpose and telling the government something different then they are committing fraud.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#47

Post by danieltillett »

diogenescynic wrote: post #23
davidw wrote: post #6

The real fix to this is to make sure that people brought over with an H1-B can easily change jobs. That way they're not beholden to some low-wage job, and companies that bring people in merely for low wages will face high rates of churn.

In my opinion, the real fix is to make the H-1B 'lottery' into an auction. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies like Cognizant and Infosys that game the immigration system by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible.

Quite a clever idea. It might be more honest of the true intent of the visa to make it a reverse auction and accept the lowest wage bids.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#48

Post by diogenescynic »

diogenescynic wrote: post #36
hatred wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for the 1% at the top Can you elaborate a bit more on this? Doesn't the initial LCA application with the Dept. of Labor requires you to submit wage details that conclusively prove that the offered wages are as per market norms.

>Doesn't the initial LCA application with the Dept. of Labor requires you to submit wage details that conclusively prove that the offered wages are as per market norms. There's nothing preventing you from applying for a lower LCA level. For example, say you have someone with 15 years of experience in system architecture and they have a Master's degree, and are bilingual, etc. Instead, you apply for a generic software…

@refurb >I'm not sure that would work. A part of the H1B approval process is to evaluate the skill level of the applicant, to make sure it lines up with the role the company is applying for.

If you've ever applied for an H-1B then you know that's not how it works. The 'process to evaluate the skill' is simply filling out a form online for their experience level, job title, and location. Give it a test here: http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesWizardStart.aspx

It's very easy to game their job title and location to lower the salary.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#49

Post by calvinbhai »

diogenescynic wrote: post #23
davidw wrote: post #6

The real fix to this is to make sure that people brought over with an H1-B can easily change jobs. That way they're not beholden to some low-wage job, and companies that bring people in merely for low wages will face high rates of churn.

In my opinion, the real fix is to make the H-1B 'lottery' into an auction. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies like Cognizant and Infosys that game the immigration system by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible.

Its super easy to game even your suggestion. Pay $100K, get $40k back in cash. your suggestion may end up making it worse for legit H1b employers, especially startups, that'll get suffocated with such high costs.

Ability to switch jobs at will, can bring up the paid salary and it puts the onus on employer to ensure employee is treat equal to other other employees in US. If employee is not treated/paid well enough, employee can move to another company in US.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#50

Post by davidw »

fra wrote: post #45
diogenescynic wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, the real fix is to make the H-1B 'lottery' into an auction. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies like Cognizant and Infosys that game the immigration system by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible.

Whether 65,000 is the right number or not isn't the important bit. While it may seem unpalatable on its face, granting the visa to the candidates with the highest paying offer is the simplest, least prone to abuse way I can think of to bring about the stated purpose of the H1B visa.

Without a number, there is no scarcity, and if there's no scarcity, there's no bidding. So with a bidding system, you absolutely do need someone in power to pick a magical number.
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