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Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

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Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#41

Post by rainhacker »

hackercomplex wrote: post #27

Keep in mind that the AMP caching infrastructure will also be able to serve as a tracking platform because it records every single IP address. This effectively grants Google and associates a defacto monopoly in terms of an unblockable mobile tracking platform in a world where ad-blockers are becoming ubiquitous. I think it's a smart move on their part actually, but what I assume will eventually happen is other provid…

I am not familiar with details of technologies related to privacy management. Wondering would they be able to track even if someone uses a VPN ?

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#42

Post by JoBrad »

x1024 wrote: post #39
JoBrad wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're pre-loading videos for the same reason Facebook does: if you post an article with a video, the video instantly plays, with little to no buffering.

"This kills the 3G data plan". At least with "the optimized for mobile" version, preloading should not happen. And it definitely shouldn't happen twice for the same video.

Agreed. Presumably they don't preload on mobile? Not sure, frankly.

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#43

Post by fweespeech »

rainhacker wrote: post #41
hackercomplex wrote: post #27

Keep in mind that the AMP caching infrastructure will also be able to serve as a tracking platform because it records every single IP address. This effectively grants Google and associates a defacto monopoly in terms of an unblockable mobile tracking platform in a world where ad-blockers are becoming ubiquitous. I think it's a smart move on their part actually, but what I assume will eventually happen is other provid…

I am not familiar with details of technologies related to privacy management. Wondering would they be able to track even if someone uses a VPN ?

For certain definitions of track, yes. They'll be able to associate your IP address and related fingerprints to the cache hits.

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#44

Post by everfree »

x1024 wrote: post #40
Navarr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the source - the videos aren't set to pre-load? And don't a lot of these sources only start loading once the page has finished rendering? AMP is supposed to be fast-to-render firstmost, right?

It should "be optimized for mobile". 4MB per page is anything but. If you visit 100 pages per day, you'd need a 12GB data plan.

That assumes that you clear your browser cache after you view every page, or that you visit 100 separate sites every day that each weigh 4MB.

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#45

Post by ksk »

From: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/support/faqs.html

> The reality is that content can take several seconds to load, or, because the user abandons the slow page, never fully loads at all. Accelerated Mobile Pages are web pages designed to load instantaneously – they are a step towards a better mobile web for all.

That's kind of dishonest of Google. The "content" doesn't take longer to load. The website does, but its because of Ads, pointless JS scripts that are spying on the user and a whole host of things that are _NOT_CONTENT_.

In any case, even if creating a new standard, or reduced-HTML, or w/e made sense, I'd be less skeptical if it wasn't controlled by an advertising company.

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#46

Post by swsieber »

tombrossman wrote: post #22

From the article: "...most ad servers (not just Google-owned DFP) will be able to send ads in AMP pages. Some work remains to be done on the formats that will be deemed acceptable in AMP pages." Deemed acceptable by who, and doesn't this indicate it will become another walled garden?

Not quite? It's talking about format, not content. Content would make it definitely a walled-garden.

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#47

Post by Arnavion »

acdha wrote: post #23
franze wrote: post #6

ok, just to get this straight if a publisher want to do everything right in todays internet, they need * a responsive website * with views for desktop, mobile and tablet * optimized for search, social and conversion * optional: augmented with schema.org * an iphone app (one or more) * an android app * optional: tablet/ipad app * facebook channel * twitter channel * youtube channel * pinterest presence * whatsapp pres…

The second point is a restatement of the first: * a responsive website * with views for desktop, mobile and tablet #3 and #4 are similarly redundant #1 makes all of the apps unnecessary, along with AMP and Facebook Instant. See also the dismal return on the sunk cost for developing apps: http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/23/i-dont-want-your-app/ The real omission, however, should have been #0: “high-quality content”. Sur…

franze probably intended "responsive" to have its dictionary meaning - "not sluggish".

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#48

Post by acdha »

Arnavion wrote: post #47
acdha wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second point is a restatement of the first: * a responsive website * with views for desktop, mobile and tablet #3 and #4 are similarly redundant #1 makes all of the apps unnecessary, along with AMP and Facebook Instant. See also the dismal return on the sunk cost for developing apps: http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/23/i-dont-want-your-app/ The real omission, however, should have been #0: “high-quality content”. Sur…

franze probably intended "responsive" to have its dictionary meaning - "not sluggish".

It's possible but in the context of web design “responsive” has had a specialized meaning for many years, going back to a very influential article in 2010 which grouped older practices under that term:

http://alistapart.com/article/responsive-web-design

It's somewhat unlikely that anyone working in front-end development in 2016 would assume the generic usage.

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#49

Post by criddell »

dsparkman wrote: post #38
criddell wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what happens when you combiner AMP pages and something like uBlock Origin? Do you get fast page loads AND minimal tracking?

Probably a blank screen since AMP requires this in your pages: body {opacity: 0} body {opacity: 1}

uBlock blocks tracking, not scripting.

Re: Google’s AMP Poised to Take the Lead from Facebook’s and Apple’s Walled Gardens

#50

Post by tomjen3 »

cromwellian wrote: post #34
r1ch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always put Cloudflare in front of a site to get the same CDN benefit.

How do you know Cloudflare or other CDNs are participating with advertisers somehow, or responding to government tracking requests? If the government can subpoena data from Google, are we sure they're not doing the same or more with CDNs, which don't seem as transparent as the consumer-facing companies.

Cloudfare publishes a transparency report https://www.cloudflare.com/transparency/, whether you trust it is another thing. Personally I have given up on privacy and now just hope that it can be made so that we are all equally naked.
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