Running costs for running a web app • Hacker News Board

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#41

Post by yoyo_io » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

tylermauthe wrote: post #33

As some have said, this seems expensive. However, I would point out that the costs of using Heroku should be outweighed by the convenience and ability to focus on features. You are getting what you pay for here, the velocity you gain from not worrying about your infrastructure. I do think that when you are first launching a startup, you should probably do everything as cheaply as possible, which probably means using…

Cost of getting one dedicated devops engineer would surpass Heroku budget by 10X. If devops engineer is far fetched as per scale of the company than count in number of hours put in by developers for initial up, upgrade, new emlpoyee on boarding tada tada would easily bet it too.

However I wish they would have disclosed traffic handled by Heroku servers as well.

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#42

Post by sethd » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:08 PM UTC

jggonz wrote: post #6

This seems ok given that the startup has generated approximately $60,000 in stripe revenue. I would try to reduce costs in those Heroku workers... $175/month seems steep.

It says they are spending $74.40/month on Heroku workers.

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#43

Post by vemv » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

philjr wrote: post #24

vemv wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dividing your architecture into separate components is not only needed for operating at scale (the "nice" problem to have), but for having high availability (or even decent performance) at all. Depending on one's business, HA/performance may not matter that much, but personally my startup is having a 'proper' design from day 1 - downtime is not acceptable for my business model.

Mind me asking what you're doing?

A sophisticated crowdfunding-based service for a particular niche.

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#44

Post by muratmutlu » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

Might be worth checking out things like fbstart or foundersgrid perks to get a bunch of vouchers and discounts off these services.

We got 6 months free Mailchimp and fee-free on Stripe for the first 60k i think, really helped at the time

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#45

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:15 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #13

AshleysBrain wrote: post #9

Cloud services can work out super expensive for a startup. To get going often all you need is one server that runs both the database and web server, which you can rent cheaply from any number of hosting companies out there. Sure you have to manage it yourself and it won't scale right off the bat, but sometimes that's fine. This is how we ran Scirra for a long time. Eventually you need to scale up, but that's a nice p…

If people depend on you for anything, you should probably have the ability to survive that one server going down. Fortunately database warm standbys are WAY easier than true multi-master.

[deleted]

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#46

Post by gary4gar » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

codinghorror wrote: post #21

Heroku is very, very expensive. We switched an early Discourse setup from Heroku to Digital Ocean (using our Docker setup, which is another reason why it exists) and it saved them probably $100 per month. Everything but the largest communities fit fine on a $20/month, 2 CPU, 2GB ram DO droplet.

What about High availability, auto-scaling & avoiding single point of failure?

Might not be that important in your case, I am guessing.

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#47

Post by vemv » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

zuck9 wrote: post #37

destroytoday wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! I run Cushion. Moving off Heroku is definitely high on my to-do list. So far, since I'm a solo dev, I've taken the mindset of paying for convenience services that would allow me to spend more time working on the app. Now, I'm getting into the phase where I can start reducing these costs and transition to a system that doesn’t induce fear when I need to add another server. Right now, I have two web workers and two…

What prevents you from using ~~Docker~~Digital Ocean?

The same thing that prevents so many developers from using Docker: it's not a drop-in miraculous infrastructure simplifier.

It may pay off for certain organisations, but it currently a quite a rabbit-hole, with a constantly changing landscape, complexities of its own, etc.

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#48

Post by lettergram » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:18 PM UTC

I really dont understand. Im deploy rails webapps all the time with pretty large postgres backends.

You could totally spin up multiple digital ocean instances to get a much cheaper infrastructure. I usually use one for load balancing, 2+ for running the app, and usually one for the backend postgres. You could also get away with using something other than digital ocean for the postgres.

But for 6000 users, depending on the app. I can probably get away with like $30 a month with this setup. Including the database.

Total setup time might be a day the first time. But it scales pretty well, costs significantly less.

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#49

Post by rickyc091 » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:19 PM UTC

destroytoday wrote: post #30

Beltiras wrote: post #20

I can slash about 4000 of those dollars down to 600 by renting hardware to run those services on. Makes you responsible for your setup but if you are bootstrapping, you can find better first year uses for 3400 dollars I'm sure.

At the time, I was eager to build the app and focus on its features and getting it online. I don't know much about renting hardware, setting up a system, and scaling, so I was gladly willing to pay to make that easier on myself. The $3400 lost actually bought me a lot more of my own time, which I consider more valuable in the long run. I'd be interested in reading a blog post about how you'd slash the cost, if you ev…

From the heroku costs, it looks like you are using one web dyno and 2 workers dyno. The database is on standard.0, which is the first base tier production level database they offer. There's no reason you couldn't host all these on one server on digital ocean. I don't really know what load your server is getting, but seeing as you only need one dyno, it's probably not much so one server should suffice.

---

# Pros of setting up your own host.

- Huge cost savings.

# Cons

- Heroku is way easier to scale, just drag the slider. Upgrading databases / redis is still a pain. I recommend going with RedisCloud instead of Heroku Redis. With database you have to do a migration and copy the data over.

- Having to deal with securing your own server and maintenance.

- High upfront cost due to setup

At the end of the day, it's about what your time is worth :). There's no right answer. I go with Heroku myself. The instant gratification is hard to beat.

Re: Running costs for running a web app

#50

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 10, 2016, 6:20 PM UTC

AshleysBrain wrote: post #9

Cloud services can work out super expensive for a startup. To get going often all you need is one server that runs both the database and web server, which you can rent cheaply from any number of hosting companies out there. Sure you have to manage it yourself and it won't scale right off the bat, but sometimes that's fine. This is how we ran Scirra for a long time. Eventually you need to scale up, but that's a nice p…

[deleted]