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Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

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Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is only part of the core team, frustrated by the lack of progress on sails, so maybe they want some of the same changes you do. Also, while I had my own frustrations with waterline, the auto migrations were meant to speed up development, they were never meant to be used in production and can be turned off with a single line if code.

Once you start shipping to production you care far less about "speed of development" and "prototyping things" and more about "does this actually work". Don't get me wrong, Sails might be very good for prototyping something, but I could recommend it only if your only goal was to prototype something.

Fair enough, though I do have some experience with shipping to production.

I do have quite a few other issues with sails and waterline (ORM). Waterline provided lifecycle hooks, but limited their power and had poor documentation on extending them. Same for sails core itself, it had hooks for writing modules and extensions, but no one outside of the core team knew well how to use them. As for migrations I ended up doing all of my own migrations with knex, I'd love to see knex or sequelize be the core of a new ORM, rather than a quickly cobbled together sql module.

Trails has promised something better on a lot of these fronts through modularity, I hope they deliver.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#42

Weird situation with this and Sails right now. Sails.js development has basically stagnated in the past year, and many people in the community believe Balderdash, the company behind it, aren't giving it the attention it deserves (they have a few new projects they're working on). Travis Webb and his team behind Trails were kicked out of Balderdash (not clear if fired from the company or just removed from GitHub group)…

It will be awhile before it's fully production-ready of course, but we'll begin using it internally for developing new projects after our 1.0-beta release in February. One note: we're using Hapi by default, but koa and express4 will be supported as well. This is part of our modularity difference.

Why Hapi?

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#43

>Trails is built and maintained by former members of the Sails.js core team Just no. I was working with Sails.js for about a year now on production systems - it's horrible. Without a doubt I can say that it's the worst framework I've ever worked with. Especially their so called "orm" - we actually had to switch it off and work with pure mysql queries instead because it can't even do migrations (it deletes everything…

I'd give it a chance. They may have made poor decisions earlier, but there's a good chance they know that, too, and they would have learned from it.

A newer framework from the same people has at least one thing going for them: they aren't likely to make the same mistakes.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I haven't played with Sails.JS, I've heard many people complain about how bad it was. However, just because the people building this new framework used to work on the Sails.JS Framework, you're going to dismiss it as being "automatically bad" ? I didn't look at Trails.JS so I don't know how it looks, but this kind of attitude seems extremely toxic and detrimental to the Open Source space. It makes me sad this i…

In his defence, he is taking a stance equipped with the knowledge of his own personal past mistakes, to avoid making them again.

And his past mistake was using Sails.

If the implementation of the Sails as a Rails-like JS framework was as bad as he says, be shouldn't use it for his next project.

A bunch of members of the community apparently had similar thoughts. As long as the idea of Rails-like JS framework isn't fundamentally flawed, they seem to be doing the logical next step: make something better.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#45

>Trails is built and maintained by former members of the Sails.js core team Just no. I was working with Sails.js for about a year now on production systems - it's horrible. Without a doubt I can say that it's the worst framework I've ever worked with. Especially their so called "orm" - we actually had to switch it off and work with pure mysql queries instead because it can't even do migrations (it deletes everything…

It sounds like you are in violent agreement with the Trails team, as they share your opinion. Hence, Trails.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#46

At first I was like, "oh another node framework" Then I saw a point where they were using hapijs in their module: https://github.com/hapijs/hapi That is giving me a small motivation to try some of my future weekend projects with Trails.

Why such decision-changing positive energy towards hapi? I am not saying you shouldn't, honestly asking why.

I have checked it, and I was not convinced of its superiority over express, considering the express community, modules, SO threads, etc. At least for a small-medium server.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#47

At first I was like, "oh another node framework" Then I saw a point where they were using hapijs in their module: https://github.com/hapijs/hapi That is giving me a small motivation to try some of my future weekend projects with Trails.

Why such decision-changing positive energy towards hapi? I am not saying you shouldn't, honestly asking why. I have checked it, and I was not convinced of its superiority over express, considering the express community, modules, SO threads, etc. At least for a small-medium server.

I just found it easier to work with. Some might find express easier, but that is just my opinion. There are also companies using hapi in production. Walmart used it and worked on black friday.

Modules is not a big problem since there are lots of node modules out there.

One could even say, why use express when meteor has a bigger community? They have modules, etc.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully. We've actually seen some (mostly superficial) activity in Sails recently, which is surprising and encouraging. Trails is actually much more modular than Sails. The goal is the same -- to make your life easier -- and the conventions are rails-like (indeed, compatible wiyh Sails) but the technical design is completely different and actually quite a bit more "node-like". Keep in mind that Trails is not a fork…

> Keep in mind that Trails is not a fork, but a Sails-compatible re-write. So there's no upstream code-level reconciliation that can happen, but I'm sure both projects can coexist and compete in the framework market on their merits. The same could have been said of Rails and Merb back in the day, but they eventually combined efforts, and rolled the concepts that people liked from Merb back into Rails. It wasn't a cas…

The key difference being that the Rails and Merb teams were full of great engineers, and that Merb was mostly meant to solve some specific Rails pain points. Native english speakers on the Merb team also probably could avoid using "actually" three times in two sentences. The Trails project seems like a lot of flash and "saying the right things" with personal enmity. for now there's no reason to expect it to be a better project than SailsJS in any way.

The trailpack abstraction ... amateur hour, or cynically, focus on branding.

Don't use these projects that are just designed to run consulting shops, seriously! I mean come on, they're actually flying aorund the country to user groups to market the thing ... lol.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#49

Can someone define "modern" in this context for me?

MVC is old and obsolete cargo cult technology. The phrase "Modern MVC Web Framework" is lipstick on a geriatric pig, like "Modern Waterfall Software Development Paradigm". Unless by modern they mean modern as in modernism, that began in the 1870s as a self-consciousness and irony concerning literary and social traditions. [1] In the same sense that the art style and technology in Fallout 4 is "modern". [2] MVC framew…

If it's obsolete, what should replace it?

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#50

>Trails is built and maintained by former members of the Sails.js core team Just no. I was working with Sails.js for about a year now on production systems - it's horrible. Without a doubt I can say that it's the worst framework I've ever worked with. Especially their so called "orm" - we actually had to switch it off and work with pure mysql queries instead because it can't even do migrations (it deletes everything…

While I haven't played with Sails.JS, I've heard many people complain about how bad it was. However, just because the people building this new framework used to work on the Sails.JS Framework, you're going to dismiss it as being "automatically bad" ? I didn't look at Trails.JS so I don't know how it looks, but this kind of attitude seems extremely toxic and detrimental to the Open Source space. It makes me sad this i…

100% agree with you. I don't agree with the comment you replied to, but it's _not_ a good sign that they stole another project's logo. https://tent.io/
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