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Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

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41–50 of 116 posts

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#41
Those who become professors tend to spend their college years around those of similar inclinations. Once they become professors they have to deal with the general population, and I think this can be a shock. Very little that I have read about the universities of other years (going far back) suggests to me that there was ever an age in which a large majority of the students were in it for the learning.

It is perhaps the case that students read less and so write worse than they did once. But having worked as a copy editor long ago, I can tell you that a lot of Ph.D.s wrote pretty damn badly before most of HN was born. (OK, Ph.D.s in the social sciences and E.D.s are mostly what I'm thinking of.)

And "Finally, the very act of employing, empowering, and often elevating such people [term employees] denigrates real scholars and scholarship by definition." I haven't heard of a lot of empowered adjuncts. And if that adjunct happens to have what it takes to teach freshman composition or an introductory survey course, I don't see the denigration. As for real scholarship, well, not everything published in a refereed journal is more than formally scholarship. One could, for example, compile an entertaining anthology of things that writers and highly qualified critics have said about Proceedings of the Modern Language Association.

Finally, what does a parent expect who sends a child off to school unable to write well and disinclined to read? It does seem to be a premise of US education that if you keep people in a classroom setting long enough then something will happen. But why should parents believe that?

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#42
post #29
post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

> Kids today can listen with one ear, read with one eye... Do their research with one tab and chat on Facebook with another. Can you code with one tab open to Facebook chat? Because the overwhelming consensus here on HN is that coding requires concentration and lack of interruptions. So does learning. Technology doesn't change the basic biological processes of learning, and the fact is that technology has proven itse…

I was too smart for the pace of learning at my public junior and high school (not too smart for college, but that's another story), and regularly either doodled, wrote stories or poetry, or programmed simple text-based games in TI-BASIC on my calculator in order to get through my classes, while looking up periodically to make sure I was still following everything they said. And this was during the 1990's that I was in junior/high school.

I graduated with almost a perfect GPA too, so at least in my case, yeah, I could code and learn at the same time.

I still can for some coding tasks professionally, but not for all. I'll have podcasts or Netflix while programming sometimes. When I really have to concentrate, though, yeah that's when the lyricless music gets put on.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this, i think, is what he's addressing. if you don't see value in humanities or the arts, i'm afraid you're completely missing the point of being alive. a world run completely by engineers is no place i want to live.

I agree that the humanities and arts are of profound importance. I've found that the problem with these subjects is often simply how they are taught. Philosophy is a great example. I was one credit shy of a philosophy minor in undergrad. The entire purpose of philosophy is to provide actionable guidelines for how to live life, yet none of my classes actually provided students with this information. Instead, a lecture…

>The entire purpose of philosophy is to provide actionable guidelines for how to live life

...I thought it was about trying to find truth, and knowledge, and wisdom for the sake of love of them. What is reality? How it exists? What it means? And anyway, how we can we understand any of it? What it means to understand it?

The whole idea of natural science of the important child of Western philosophy.

History of philosophy is a beautiful example how most of the purported "actionable guidelines" turn out quite hokey in a closer inspection.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#46
post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

"I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give undivided attention to professors anymore. Kids today can listen with one ear, read with one eye... Do their research with one tab and chat on Facebook with another"

Not really. His point was that the act of learning hasn't really changed, and he's right. Undivided attention is still needed for most learning intensive tasks. I even see many posts here on HN about not being able to concentrate on business task X or Y because a person is surfing the net too often (I'm guilty of it too).

If you spread yourself too thin, you won't really learn much of anything.

"I think Universities need to realize their systems do not suit young people. And that's their fault."

Technology should be used to supplement learning and make it more efficient (IE: e-learning, etc). But it's not a complete replacement for it. There still are no shortcuts to success.

If a young person can't handle this, maybe they should go into the trades instead.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#47
post #29
post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

> Kids today can listen with one ear, read with one eye... Do their research with one tab and chat on Facebook with another. Can you code with one tab open to Facebook chat? Because the overwhelming consensus here on HN is that coding requires concentration and lack of interruptions. So does learning. Technology doesn't change the basic biological processes of learning, and the fact is that technology has proven itse…

[deleted]

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#48
post #9

In all honesty this writer sounds utterly curmudgeonly. He writes passionately about what "real education" is, dispenses some good ol' Hard Facts About Life, and urges us all to put down those dang computer-devices and just learn ! This is classic finger-pointing, angsty whining. I'm sorry, but the conceit here flagrantly disregards modern reality. Learning is easier now than it's ever been. People don't need to give…

That was my impression as well. I love how, in one anecdote, he talks about how students "don't read" and puts the example that given they know they can get a B without the book, don't bother; some how this is the students' fault. Just the selective blindness to it all, how can anyone be surprised that given no external nor internal motivation any human being is going to be arsed to go out of their way to do things.…

Huh. 18 out of 230 students bought the text they were studying. That sounds like statistics. 'C' grades for what used to be failing exams - more data. And rising test scores? In what universe is that happening? These are 2nd-tier liberal arts colleges at issue, not Stanford.

Tool belt? Its nonsense to imagine googling a subject is as effective as learning it. That's twaddle, and any student who skates over their lack of education by faking papers from online resources is involved in a self-destructive sham. The paper is supposed to demonstrate a mastery of the subject. The paper is not the point. Producing a likely-looking one is not the point. Actually knowing the subject is the point.

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#49

Guess what, when you insist on doing only useless work, people start to think your work is useless. Humanities are incredibly important. I'd kill for somebody to help me communicate better at my undergrad, or understand people better, or any deep understanding of politics. Was any of that available? Of course not. There were only boring lessons, full of useless bullshit with professors claiming even objectively false…

> Was any of that available?

I took a fiction writing class, public speaking and American government. Did you not have any electives like that?

Re: Everything You Need to Know About Your Son and Daughter’s University but Don’t

#50
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kids today can listen with one ear, read with one eye... Do their research with one tab and chat on Facebook with another. Can you code with one tab open to Facebook chat? Because the overwhelming consensus here on HN is that coding requires concentration and lack of interruptions. So does learning. Technology doesn't change the basic biological processes of learning, and the fact is that technology has proven itse…

I was too smart for the pace of learning at my public junior and high school (not too smart for college, but that's another story), and regularly either doodled, wrote stories or poetry, or programmed simple text-based games in TI-BASIC on my calculator in order to get through my classes, while looking up periodically to make sure I was still following everything they said. And this was during the 1990's that I was i…

No you didn't do it at the same time. You did learning at a higher pace than the average pace (which is the pace at which the teacher will cover material), and then did not learn for the remainder of the time. That's completely different from doing things simultaneously, i.e. at the same time.
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