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Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

economist.com

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Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#41

Post by coldtea »

lumberjack wrote: post #15

The confidence with which the author generalizes various groups of people in the article makes me quite uneasy. We know that this is not permitted if we are attributing negative qualities to a group of people. Why is it then permissible to generalize when we are praising the same groups? In doing so the author is sort of admitting that it is at times logical to generalize groups of people and that there is no risk of…

>We know that this is not permitted if we are attributing negative qualities to a group of people. Why is it then permissible to generalize when we are praising the same groups?

Actually both should be permissible, as both can be true in the statistical and cultural sense.

We're not unique snowflakes as we like to believe. Our culture shapes us in many ways, nicely in some ways, badly in others, and it does the same to others sharing it.

There's a reason why stereotypes exist, beside bigotry and arbitrariness.

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#42

Post by sumanthn »

ashayh wrote: post #32

Since we are generalizing, its worth mentioning the tendency of Gujratis (or most Indians) to be extremely insular and selfish: "Trust and honesty remain essential to Gujarati-dominated industries. Mr Mehta, himself a Jain from Palanpur, whose diamond company has a turnover of $1.8 billion and offices from Antwerp to Tokyo, says that, despite the size of the business, it is still “all based on handshakes and words, w…

I have the feeling it might take another generation of Indians growing up in a global economy for them to realize the advantages of an uncorrupt and morally just society.

Theres still so much backwards cultural stigma thats prevalent in India that I think its just going to take a lot of time for Indians to realize what needs to be done.

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#43

Post by chime »

rgovind wrote: post #26
chime wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that this article makes too many sweeping generalizations but nevertheless it struck a chord with me. I am a Gujarati programmer and have never fit in with any of my family or community members in the realm of career or goals. I have no problems with nurturing personal relationships with other Gujaratis but I just can't connect with them on any STEM topics (except medicine). I closely know probably 1…

Thats a great writeup. I have a followup question. It seems like Gujaratis are looking at everything from business perspective rather than "problem solving" perspective like in SV. Is this true?

If you define the problem as a lack of business or financial success, then looking at everything from business perspective is just problem solving.

I honestly cannot speak for any Gujarati in SV or even tech, but in my experience, I don't think that Gujaratis are significantly different in terms of skills, morality, or values than any other Indian or non-Indian group of people. It is very easy to say Gujaratis are shrewd or follow the old-boys-club tactics but those are just typical human traits passed on culturally and sociologically instead of genetically. The basic Gujarati values mirror the basic Indian values (be peaceful, love everyone, respect elders, help the poor, be studious, work hard) but some are emphasized a lot more than others.

For every commenter in here saying Gujarat is a backwards place, I personally know a Gujarati who has donated large amount of money to non-religious public service projects. My uncle sponsors the education of 10 kids in our village in India and feeds 100+ people on the death anniversary of my grandfather. I am not saying he is a saint, I am saying he is just one data point among the tens of thousands of successful Gujaratis. It's not fair to measure charity, benevolence, and kindness because one's native place is not Singapore or Zurich just yet.

In the past few decades, our village has progressed significantly, with wealthier Gujaratis awarding scholarships to kids in need ( http://www.balasinorcollege.com/found_trust.html ). Is that enough to wipe out poverty from Gujarat or India? Absolutely not. Gujaratis are NOT any different from other people. Few great, most decent, and a handful of bad apples (e.g. Harshad Mehta). I don't think the article was trying to highlight Gujaratis are some uber-exceptional race. It was just highlighting how ingrained business acumen is in the Gujarati ethos.

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#44

Post by ElysianEagle »

hackaflocka wrote: post #40
ashayh wrote: post #32

Since we are generalizing, its worth mentioning the tendency of Gujratis (or most Indians) to be extremely insular and selfish: "Trust and honesty remain essential to Gujarati-dominated industries. Mr Mehta, himself a Jain from Palanpur, whose diamond company has a turnover of $1.8 billion and offices from Antwerp to Tokyo, says that, despite the size of the business, it is still “all based on handshakes and words, w…

Indian Gujarati here. OP is correct. Gujaratis are good at making money in a host society. But the original towns etc. in Gujarat are shite-holes, and they've not cross-pollinated all the progress of their host societies into their source society. Also, as far as helping non-Gujaratis is concerned, fuhgeddedaboutit. To me, the implication is that they essentially lack societal vision, altruism and out-group empathy.…

As another person of Indian origin, I'd have to say that unfortunately this is true of the vast majority of Indians and not just Gujaratis.

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#47

Post by jeffdavis »

gotchange wrote: post #27
jeffdavis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful listening to that kind of stereotype. It's often promoted by natives who are outperformed economically by immigrants. That builds resentment and can have horrific consequences. Finding moral fault in others is often just a way to explain their own lack of accomplishment. Not always, of course. But something to be very careful of.

This is a two way street. You can't expect with the dissemination of ethnic-based propaganda and "pride" type movements that natives or other social groups not to take notice of your endeavors and starts responding to you in kind. It's good to celebrate success but not good to determine the worth of individuals or social groups solely on the basis of financial assets or business holdings. This is the real slippery sl…

I'm not sure I agree that there needs to be symmetry between compliments and insults.

I think the right approach is to compliment specific groups and people and behaviors; and criticize only behaviors. The specific people/groups who are behaving well will value the personal credit and build on it; the specific people behaving badly can take impersonal criticism without feeling the need to be defensive.

Occasionally naming names is warranted in criticism, but that's the exception.

Re: Gujarati Capitalism: Going Global

#49

Post by galtwho »

ashayh wrote: post #32

Since we are generalizing, its worth mentioning the tendency of Gujratis (or most Indians) to be extremely insular and selfish: "Trust and honesty remain essential to Gujarati-dominated industries. Mr Mehta, himself a Jain from Palanpur, whose diamond company has a turnover of $1.8 billion and offices from Antwerp to Tokyo, says that, despite the size of the business, it is still “all based on handshakes and words, w…

This doesn't apply to Bhuj though. From what I hear, the town has unparalleled facilities not found anywhere else in the country all courtesy of its expats and business people.
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