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Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

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Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#41

Post by Animats »

SilasX wrote: post #7

No knowledge of the biotech, but this is really shady. Above-board companies simply do not look like this. 1) Refusal to use the ground-breaking technology: >Then I asked about what Theranos calls “nanotainers” or tiny vials that can give you test results with a single drop of blood. >“Oh you have to order that separately,” she informed me. “We take those intravenously if you bundle a bunch of tests together.” >[...]…

"Scouts that are instructed to alert central command whenever people start asking questions, especially when that was during a patient consultation."

That's a HIPPA violation.[1]

The article author asks others to write to her about their experiences with Theranos "nanotainer" tests.

[1] https://www.hipaa.com/the-reality-of-hipaa-violations-and-en...

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#42

Post by wavefunction »

cat-dev-null wrote: post #39
swingbridge wrote: post #3

In general if a company is unfairly receiving bad press claiming its product is a sham, the usual response is to counteract that by being open and transparent and allowing independent assessment to disprove such claims. Want to pop in unannounced to test our product? Sure, no problem, let us show you how wonderful things are. The fact that they keep acting all shady doesn't bode well for their efforts to claim that t…

It doesn't look like they're "acting shady," but that Walgreens + Theranos hasn't streamlined their bureaucracy and user experience which promotes the value-add of change instead of offering a lesser experience (like the much touted credit card chip, which takes longer and not as forgiving to user interaction as the ol' magstripe). Most of the time, the only lab work I trust Walgreens with is a cholesterol test and a…

I agree with swingbridge, they're "acting all shady."

Especially if you've seen their public press appearances.

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#43

Post by drcode »

Animats wrote: post #41
SilasX wrote: post #7

No knowledge of the biotech, but this is really shady. Above-board companies simply do not look like this. 1) Refusal to use the ground-breaking technology: >Then I asked about what Theranos calls “nanotainers” or tiny vials that can give you test results with a single drop of blood. >“Oh you have to order that separately,” she informed me. “We take those intravenously if you bundle a bunch of tests together.” >[...]…

"Scouts that are instructed to alert central command whenever people start asking questions, especially when that was during a patient consultation." That's a HIPPA violation.[1] The article author asks others to write to her about their experiences with Theranos "nanotainer" tests. [1] https://www.hipaa.com/the-reality-of-hipaa-violations-and-en...

I agree it's shady, but it might not be a HIPAA violation- The lab company hierarchy has a valid "need to know" about lab tests being performed under their responsibility in order to do their jobs correctly.

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#44

Post by SilasX »

drcode wrote: post #43
Animats wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Scouts that are instructed to alert central command whenever people start asking questions, especially when that was during a patient consultation." That's a HIPPA violation.[1] The article author asks others to write to her about their experiences with Theranos "nanotainer" tests. [1] https://www.hipaa.com/the-reality-of-hipaa-violations-and-en...

I agree it's shady, but it might not be a HIPAA violation- The lab company hierarchy has a valid "need to know" about lab tests being performed under their responsibility in order to do their jobs correctly.

The head of communications has a need to know the name, occupation, and tests requested by everyone who comes in?

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#45

Post by SilasX »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #40
SilasX wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that those other things are stronger evidence, but I think the stuff I cited is still a significant, independent strike against Theranos. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but in a negative PR storm, isn't it a godsend when people ( especially journalists) are actually trying out your product for themselves rather than joining the bandwagon based on innuendo? Why would they be turning away people from trying the…

I agree with the GP on this one that most of those points are not shady. Point #1 is bogus: if you're already doing a venous draw then why do another separate test as well? That's just good sense. The other points don't especially surprise me either. They seem mostly like either just a cautious response to learning she's a reporter or even standard practice. Many above-board companies who are cautious about their pre…

>Point #1 is bogus: if you're already doing a venous draw then why do another separate test as well? That's just good sense.

Note what followed in point 2 (and what I should have added on 1 but for being too repetitive): when you do ask for just that test, suddenly it's not available!

>Unfortunately the piece does not include a detail that it would have been really useful to know, which is what happens if you walk in and order the one test that can be conducted with a finger prick - would they use their test or not? The difficulty ordering the test that occurred when she asked could have been affected by the fact that she had told him she was a reporter,

I think it's just as important to reveal that bit: that whether they use the top-secret tech might depend on whether you're a skeptic or otherwise not a sympathetic party.

>Plus the reporter almost certainly got Theranos' hackles up by communicating with them and receiving an invitation to have a test done, and then going behind their back to do it anonymously at another center. I won't say that it's unethical for him to have done that, but it's definitely an aggressive action or will seem so to Theranos.

In my book, "a company that is upset that you tested a sample offered to the general public rather than one they cherry-picked for you" is a shady company.

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#46

Post by icegreentea »

SilasX wrote: post #44
drcode wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's shady, but it might not be a HIPAA violation- The lab company hierarchy has a valid "need to know" about lab tests being performed under their responsibility in order to do their jobs correctly.

The head of communications has a need to know the name, occupation, and tests requested by everyone who comes in?

Man, obviously they didn't do that. The reporter talked to the remote manager of the site, and also openly told the manager that he was a reporter (or at least openly told the on-site employee who told the manager). Honestly, I fully expect press interactions to escalate pretty quickly, especially in a company in 'oh shit' PR mode.

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#47

Post by chillwaves »

danso wrote: post #5
codezero wrote: post #2

There has been a lot of critical attention towards theranos. I have no opinion whether it is granted or not, in general I feel critical is always good, but the volume is so high, does anyone have any insight into the intense scrutiny theranos is receiving?

The origin story of Theranos is carved from pure Silicon Valley mythril: 19-year-old drops out of Stanford to build a massively disruptive startup and in short-order, receives hundreds of millions in funding and near-decaunicorn valuation. On top of that, the founder is a photogenic woman who dresses and speaks and acts as if she were Steve Jobs incarnate. And unlike Facebook and most other tech startups, Theranos wa…

This is the most legendary synopsis of our times. Seriously, the use of mythril? Brilliant and the rest is so on point. It's hard to believe this whole thing is real. I feel like we are living in a sitcom.

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#48

Post by icelancer »

adevine wrote: post #24

To me, one of the sad things about the Theranos debacle is that even if they DON'T have super whiz-bang nanotainer technology, the general model of having affordable, transparently priced tests where you can just walk into a Walgreen's and order them is pretty awesome in my opinion. There are other companies that offer something somewhat similar (e.g. AnyLabTestNow), but the experience still sucks - locations/times a…

Is there ANYTHING like this? Been searching casually for it but no luck. Would love any leads on this.

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#49

Post by SilasX »

icegreentea wrote: post #46
SilasX wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The head of communications has a need to know the name, occupation, and tests requested by everyone who comes in?

Man, obviously they didn't do that. The reporter talked to the remote manager of the site, and also openly told the manager that he was a reporter (or at least openly told the on-site employee who told the manager). Honestly, I fully expect press interactions to escalate pretty quickly, especially in a company in 'oh shit' PR mode.

Sorry, let me clarify.

I'm not saying they were automatically relaying name/job/tests-requested of everyone coming in. I was just bringing that up as the level of "need to know" that the hierarchy would need to have in order to automatically have access to the key details in the story.

Second, I agree that the conversation with the manager is fair game (or at least, not a HIPAA violation) to relay to the head of communications.

Nevertheless, look what happened: the HoC (Buchanan) was pre-emptively given at least the information that Buhr went to the clinic (not simply that she spoke to a manager). That is itself borderline.

But Buchanan was probably also informed that she asked about the specific test in question. That sounds very much like a HIPAA violation, just as it would be if you released to the Quest Labs head of PR that so-and-so asked for an HIV test.

Re: Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

#50

Post by codezero »

mattmanser wrote: post #29
codezero wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of existing technologies seems like an unimportant factor. Uber uses cars, more to the point they started using private limo contractors and still do. They nonetheless provided a service above and beyond what you could get before. Is Theranos using existing technologies and still not providing value above the incumbents? This is what I really want to know. I just don't know.

Unimportant factor? A better comparison would be if Uber had claimed they had self-driving car before they'd even entered the market, had started doing rides, and then it turned out Lyft drivers were surreptitiously hidden inside the front of the car and were actually driving instead of the mystical self-driving computer. That's how it looks at the moment with the way Theranos is behaving.

How, and to whom did Theranos over-promise?
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