If they know there's a backdoor to one type of encryption wont they just use a different form of encryption?
A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
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Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#42> but debates about whether the technology should have a "back door" for intelligence services are heating up again What "debates"? there is absolutely nothing they can do to enforce terrorists to use backdoored encryption, any debate is just a waste of time, money, and maybe even lives. What are they thinking??
Exactly. This is the same as gun control. If a technology exists, you cannot tell people to not use it; otherwise, all you've done is put law-abiding citizens at a competitive disadvantage while arming the bad guys. To argue otherwise is absolute ignorance.
Here in the UK, there are very strong gun controls - and guess what, there has not been a single mass shooting incident since these gun controls were introduced - whereas in the USA there seems to be mass shooting incidents every other month.
EDIT I should have said mass shootings incidents in the UK are extremely rare, but of course not impossible because people can still legally keep shotguns and rifles.
Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#43How about this: we assume terrorists can fucking talk covertly whenever they like (since there are myriads of channels and codes that they can use) and that mass surveillance is not the way to catch them plotting their next act. And from then on, ONLY use surveillance on specific targets under investigation. And while at it, maybe even have a limit on the number of targets each agency can investigate, so they chose t…
They already knew about most of these people and had wiretaps on a couple of them.
Mohammed Atta was also a person of interest. This has always been the case and was the case all the way back to 9/11, and it illustrates why mass surveillance won't stop terror. How do you tell the difference between someone who will actually act and someone who holds beliefs that overlap with terrorist ideologies or who simply talks trash on the Internet and is never going to do anything? Any dragnet will simply drown you in more false positives.
Edit: lots of people saw Atta being a POI as a sign of a "let it happen" conspiracy, but the much more likely explanation is that he was on a very long list of watched persons. Being of interest for whatever reason is not a crime (and shouldn't be), so there is nothing the FBI or anyone else can do until someone actually does something. Of course then it's too late.
Police can rarely stop crime unless they happen to luck out and be at exactly the right place at the right time. They can only catch criminals and take them off the street so they can't commit more crimes.
Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#44Encryption backdoors are a lightning-rod topic on HN, but instead of repeating all the common-talking points, I'd suggest the following: Think through something like this, outside of your expertise, that you think the powers-that-be should just do. Maybe it's something with your local municipality's approach to road resurfacing, maybe it's the quarterback on your favorite football team, maybe it's your local zoning b…
> So politicians and intelligence services calling for encryption want, institutionally, to keep people safe. How can tech companies do that without breaking or backdooring encryption? That's the real problem to solve, and the first person to figure out how to do that will be way ahead. I don't think this is a technical problem, and I don't think it's our responsibility to solve it. If the US wants to stop terrorism…
Anyone care to enlighten me as to why I'm being downvoted?
Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If a technology exists, you cannot tell people to not use it; otherwise, all you've done is put law-abiding citizens at a competitive disadvantage while arming the bad guys. This comment is amazing self parody. So what, we should we let people cook up nerve gas and anthrax and build surface-to-air missile launchers in their garages, to make sure they have competitive parity with the bad guys?
Most individuals who would even begin to consider trying to "cook up" substances like nerve gas or anthrax "in a garage" would undoubtedly die in the process, in which case problem solved. And yes, people should be able to build "surface to air missile launchers" in their garages. It's called amateur rocketry, and last I checked it was quite a popular (and legal) hobby. The vast majority of encryption is used in a la…
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Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#46The IRA were known to recruit top stem students from universities in Ireland during their campaign to make bombs. Surely an entity as large and as well financed and ISIS would have little trouble finding bright young engineers & technologists sympathetic to their cause to simply build their own encrypted services? And then so much for the spooks 'backdoors'
> Surely an entity as large and as well financed and ISIS would have little trouble finding bright young engineers & technologists sympathetic to their cause to simply build their own encrypted services? You wouldn't even need the brightest engineers. In fact so many encryption algorithms have been opened sourced and / or in library form for so long that it's easy for practically any developer to do.
Just having a library that does something doesn't magically bring security. The issue is, engineer still needs to know a lot of stuff (or strictly conform to the instructions) to use the thing correctly. There are too many ways to screw the thing up without even knowing it.
So, if the thing's to slap some nice GUI upon an existing library that implements the security bits, then almost no knowledge's required. But if one has a library full of primitives but still has to combine them in a meaningful way - it's a damned minefield.
Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. This is the same as gun control. If a technology exists, you cannot tell people to not use it; otherwise, all you've done is put law-abiding citizens at a competitive disadvantage while arming the bad guys. To argue otherwise is absolute ignorance.
Here in the UK, there are very strong gun controls - and guess what, there has not been a single mass shooting incident since these gun controls were introduced - whereas in the USA there seems to be mass shooting incidents every other month. EDIT I should have said mass shootings incidents in the UK are extremely rare, but of course not impossible because people can still legally keep shotguns and rifles.
France also has very strong gun controls. It is of course, more complicated than that. And, by the way, a man shot and killed 12 people in the UK in 2010 with legally held rifles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings
Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#48I've gotta believe these organizations can find one or two developers among the billions of muslims on this planet. Why wouldn't they just write their own apps for android and call it a day?
Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. This is the same as gun control. If a technology exists, you cannot tell people to not use it; otherwise, all you've done is put law-abiding citizens at a competitive disadvantage while arming the bad guys. To argue otherwise is absolute ignorance.
Here in the UK, there are very strong gun controls - and guess what, there has not been a single mass shooting incident since these gun controls were introduced - whereas in the USA there seems to be mass shooting incidents every other month. EDIT I should have said mass shootings incidents in the UK are extremely rare, but of course not impossible because people can still legally keep shotguns and rifles.
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Re: A Back Door to Encryption Won't Stop Terrorists
#50When X is illegal, only the criminals will have X. Replace X with basically anything.
when murder is illegal, only the criminals will murder