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State of emergency in France

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Re: State of emergency in France

#41

Post by corin_ »

Spare_account wrote: post #27
corin_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The curfew was put into place last night, the first time it has happened since 1944 apparently, but it was lifted again by this morning. It's still recommended to not go outside unless you have to, but not forbidden. (Very recently a car reportedly with four heavily armed people in it broke through a police barrier, driving towards Paris - nobody knows if directly connected yet..) It's still quite a tense atmosphere…

Re: armed men in a car It took a while to find a source that wasn't the Daily Mail http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-police-...

French press has been (understandably I guess) ahead of international press on most of this stuff. Personally I'm following http://www.metronews.fr/ http://www.lemonde.fr/ and http://www.leparisien.fr/

Despite living here, my French isn't great so mainly using Google translate.

Re: State of emergency in France

#42

Post by [deleted] »

ilaksh wrote: post #3

This is a false-flag attack designed to motivate moving western operations in Syria from covert to overt. There are already Russians and Chinese in Syria so this could literally kick of WWIII if no one stops it. Unfortunately the media is so well controlled that the ubiquitous war propaganda is generally not questioned. As demonstrated by the instant downvote of my comment, media that isn't explicitly controlled is g…

[deleted]

Re: State of emergency in France

#43

Post by vezzy-fnord »

joosters wrote: post #29
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More overt operations in Syria is a plausible outcome, so it's not full-on.

The original comment was saying it was a 'false flag operation' - is that not conspiratard enough for you?

It's probably not a false flag and greater still probably won't lead to the outbreak of WWIII, I do concede that.

(However, it's not too outlandish that the perpetrators may turn out to be jihadists unaffiliated with ISIL, which would still technically make it a "false flag".)

Re: State of emergency in France

#44

Post by StephenFalken »

junto wrote: post #18
Luker88 wrote: post #5

Didn't France approve sweeping surveillance laws back in July? And they even were on high alert due to international talks happening in Paris... Italy and Spain also stopped terrorist cells this month, but they don't seem to have such laws... Guess they need more unwarranted power, uh?

We need targeted surveillance and by that I mean something that many will vehemently disagree with. Before you down vote, please make the effort to read to the end and then down vote! If I was a doctor and my patient had cancer in his foot, then if try to treat the foot to get rid of the cancer. I would also pay particularly close attention to the leg connected to that foot, to make sure that the cancer did not sprea…

What I see is that no amount of monitoring of the more radicalized elements of society will alter the deep and profound civilizational changes that are taking place in Europe.

This seems to be about the end of an era and the beginning of a whole new one. And nothing seems able to alter that course of History.

Re: State of emergency in France

#45

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

junto wrote: post #28
tomp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is to monitor all Muslims living in Europe And Christians, of course (Brevik). Probably atheists and Jews as well, just in case.

Please don't partially quote me as it alters the meaning: > is to monitor all Muslims living in Europe who have the potential to be radicalised The last part of that is important. I'm talked about targeted surveillance.

You choice of wording suggests a different meaning from what, I hope, you intended. You say "all Muslims living in Europe who have the potential to be radicalised" - this sounds very much like "all Muslims ... have the potential to be radicalised". Hopefully, what you actually mean is "monitor any Muslim with the potential to be radicalised" - i.e. monitor a tiny number of Muslims, not all of them!

Re: State of emergency in France

#46

Post by fabulist »

junto wrote: post #25
mbrock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian measures targeted against large ethnic groups has been historically unsuccessful in Europe. It also grievously violates the core principles of an open and liberal society, which are presumably what we are supposed to be defending. Vehemently disagreeing with your opinion is a crucial necessity for anyone who stands for democracy and liberty.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

"You don't see the world as it is, you see it as you are." -- Krishna Saagar

With all the information now available regarding mass surveillance, the only ways to believe it is an effective deterrent to terrorism are ignorance and obstinacy.

Re: State of emergency in France

#47

Post by mirimir »

junto wrote: post #25
mbrock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian measures targeted against large ethnic groups has been historically unsuccessful in Europe. It also grievously violates the core principles of an open and liberal society, which are presumably what we are supposed to be defending. Vehemently disagreeing with your opinion is a crucial necessity for anyone who stands for democracy and liberty.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

Maybe we don't expect that we can fuck with other people without getting fucked with ourselves?

Re: State of emergency in France

#48

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

junto wrote: post #25
mbrock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian measures targeted against large ethnic groups has been historically unsuccessful in Europe. It also grievously violates the core principles of an open and liberal society, which are presumably what we are supposed to be defending. Vehemently disagreeing with your opinion is a crucial necessity for anyone who stands for democracy and liberty.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

2. and 3. play into the terrorists' hands perfectly: they transform our society from a free, liberal one to a fascist surveillance state. When the choice is a lack of freedom ruled over by ISIS or a lack of freedom ruled over by our current leaders, it's a meaningless choice. 1. is the only option that doesn't ultimately destroy our way of life.

Re: State of emergency in France

#50

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

sceptic92 wrote: post #40
junto wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need targeted surveillance and by that I mean something that many will vehemently disagree with. Before you down vote, please make the effort to read to the end and then down vote! If I was a doctor and my patient had cancer in his foot, then if try to treat the foot to get rid of the cancer. I would also pay particularly close attention to the leg connected to that foot, to make sure that the cancer did not sprea…

"Leg cancer"? What drugs are you on?

Do you not recognise an analogy when you see one? I fear you're missing every other, more important point at hand.
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