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Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

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Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#41

Post by galago »

sundvor wrote: post #6
mberning wrote: post #5

I think about this often. Every day in rush hour traffic I have to take a number of calculated risks in order to get to work. This usually crops up when making a turn onto a highly congested road. I could easily see a self driving car being too conservative to find a gap and pull out, leading to a furious string of drivers behind it.

The problem would be resolved quite nicely if all cars were self driving, interconnected, and could be governed by a master plan.

If competing commercial systems are allowed, they might try to game the various systems as a matter of competition. To fix it, the regulation ends up being a form of government mandated mass transit.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#42

Post by greenleafjacob »

ajmurmann wrote: post #35
sundvor wrote: post #3

Well I for one would find a vehicle travelling at 40km/h in a 60 zone incredibly annoying, even if they're legally allowed to travel that slow.

Divergence I speed is a big cause of both traffic jams and accidents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#43

Post by TeMPOraL »

lechuga wrote: post #37
TeMPOraL wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if quantum waveforming magic turns out to be prohibitely expensive energy-wise? It may be that teleportation will be used between Earth and Mars, but self-driving cars will still roam the planet surface.

earth and the rest of the inner solar system will be strip-mined for materials to build solar collectors and autonomous robots

Why would people want to build autonomous robots if they can quantum-entangle-apport anything anywhere?

But even if, replace "Mars" with "Neptune" and my point still stands. Also, autonomous cars are autonomous robots.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#44

Post by lern_too_spel »

Others wrote: post #9
mberning wrote: post #5

I think about this often. Every day in rush hour traffic I have to take a number of calculated risks in order to get to work. This usually crops up when making a turn onto a highly congested road. I could easily see a self driving car being too conservative to find a gap and pull out, leading to a furious string of drivers behind it.

I don't think this a case of the car being so careful that it got pulled over. It mentions in the article that Google artificially capped the speed of the prototype to 25mph. That implies that the car is able and willing to go faster, but Google doesn't feel comfortable going that fast yet. (I don't buy their stated PR reason for the cap.)

The cap is legally mandated, for safety reasons. They are not regulated for safety in high speed crashes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#45

Post by Piskvorrr »

btiede wrote: post #21
cxseven wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though once there are enough of them on the road, they could be made to help each other out. In fact, they could make it so that human drivers are at a disadvantage.

Agreed that enough of these self-driving cars on the road would put human drivers at a relative disadvantage if the self-driving cars are able to transmit and share data among themselves regarding dangerous road conditions that require extra precautions (e.g., icy, slick surfaces), accidents, traffic conditions or dangerous human drivers that are putting others at risk.

Similar to other drivers being at a disadvantage by not using e.g. Waze? Possibly; I'd agree that an AV would be capable of processing both a wider range of alerts and a larger volume of them.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#46

Post by Animats »

I thought Google was building the little 25MPH self driving cars for senior communities, campuses, and such. But they're running them on El Camino Real.

They apparently registered the small self driving cars as what California calls a "Neighborhood Electric Vehicle".[0] A NEV is limited to 25 MPH, and cannot be operated on a road with a speed limit above 35 MPH. It's one step above a golf cart. Local municipalities can limit their use on faster streets, if they so choose, but they don't have to.

There's a related flap over high speed electric bicycles. They're supposed to be limited to 20MPH, but some can reach 40MPH, and a few can reach 50MPH.[1] They only have bicycle-grade wheels, brakes, and pothole tolerance[2], which is a problem. At what point is a driver's license, or a motorcycle license, required, what's allowed on a bike path, and do you have to have pedals?[3] There are now three classes of electric bikes in California, one of which doesn't have pedals but is still considered a "bicycle". There are also electric mopeds and electric motorcycles.

Trying to fit all these vehicles on the same road and bike path system is difficult.

[0] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_... [1] https://www.electricbike.com/stealth-bomber-review/ [2] http://www.levassociation.com/worldwide-legislation [3] https://www.electricbike.com/california-ebike-laws/

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#47

Post by samcheng »

raldi wrote: post #13
sundvor wrote: post #3

Well I for one would find a vehicle travelling at 40km/h in a 60 zone incredibly annoying, even if they're legally allowed to travel that slow.

How do you feel about cyclists on 35mph (60kph) roads?

I hate seeing cyclists on the very same road in question (El Camino Real in Mountain View). There is a substantial bike 'boulevard' network of side streets made safer for bicyclists, so it's mostly ignorance that brings people to bike down El Camino.

Check out the line of red dots in this accident map:

http://www.mv-voice.com/news/2012/09/13/over-200-bike-relate...

Considering that cyclists are expressly encouraged to use other roads, this thoroughfare is MUCH more dangerous to a cyclist than most of the rest of the city.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#48

Post by Joeri »

jws wrote: post #17

The Google cars are licensed as Neighborhood Electric Vehicles. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicl... This means they are legally limited to 25mph and legally allowed to drive on roadways with speed limits up to 45mph. NEVs let you have very light weight, inexpensive vehicles with exceptional economy… that would be instant death traps in a high speed collision. They don't undergo ordinary cr…

It's no more dangerous than driving a motorbike. People do that all the time without worrying about the risk.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#49

Post by adrianN »

cmdrfred wrote: post #24
lechuga wrote: post #15

these cars are going to be like beta max. quantum entanglement will make everyone who wasted time on them feel like an idiot. careers will be ruined.

I'll bite, how does sending information vast distances instantly drive a car?

Quantum entanglement doesn't really send information.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#50

Post by declan »

finnn wrote: post #10

They didn't link to either of their sources, so I went and found them: Mountain View Police Department blog post: http://mountainviewpoliceblog.com/2015/11/12/inquiring-minds... Google Self-Driving Car Project Google+ post: https://plus.google.com/+SelfDrivingCar/posts/j9ouVZSZnRf

Thanks! That MV police blog post says the traffic officer stopped the car to "educate the operators about impeding traffic per 22400(a) of the California Vehicle Code."

That section of the vehicle code says, emphasis added: "No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law." https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d11/c...

If Google's self-driving cars are limited by law to 25mph, and the car was not exceeding 25mph, then it was "in compliance with the law" and 22400(a) doesn't apply. It would be allowed to impede or block traffic, even if we human drivers would really prefer it to be going 45mph.

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