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Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

arstechnica.com

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Re: Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

#41

Post by swsieber »

refurb wrote: post #38
swsieber wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that there are that many assumptions. The core assumption is this: having a more diverse gut microbiome is healthier.

Do you have any sources to back that up? I don't see anywhere in the article that it says the diversity in the gut was reduced. It says it was altered. Also, if you change your diet, your diversity is also potentially reduced. Is that bad too?

It would seem I was influenced by an earlier post today[1]. That post talked about research indicating that microbiome diversity was important/healthy.

While article of this post mentions that the linked study showed a change in composition and diversity, the abstract itself just mentioned a reduction of a particular beneficial group of bacteria:

Additionally, metagenomic predictions based on 16S rRNA gene amplicon data were performed using PICRUSt. The salivary microbiome was found to be significantly more robust, whereas the antibiotics negatively affected the fecal microbiome: in particular, health-associated butyrate-producing species became strongly underrepresented.[3]

Which I guess makes the assumption even simpler: greatly reducing a group of healthy bacteria from your gut for a while qualifies as messing it up.

Also the earlier article I read[3] does in fact posit that a reduction of diversity through diet change is in fact bad. Of course there is still a debate about the truthfulness and magnitude of that statement.

[1][3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10552477

[2] http://mbio.asm.org/content/6/6/e01693-15.full.pdf+html [iFrame + PDF]

Edit: Italicized the quote, clarity

Re: Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

#42

Post by jstelly »

Duhck wrote: post #6
Natsu wrote: post #2

I simply took a probiotic after being on antibiotics for a couple months and it had a side effect of curing a lot of digestive problems I used to have. So there's that, too. Incidentally, my doctor was the one who advised this. EDIT: The probiotic in my case was capsules of 15B cells of Lactobasillus GG. Marketing copy on the box suggests this is the "most clinically studied probiotic strain" but I'm not able to veri…

I actually have had similar problems. In the past when I take antibiotics it fixes my GI problems.

There is a condition called Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth that fits this description. There is even an antibiotic that is marketed toward and prescribed for the condition called Xifaxan / rifaximin. Neomycin (another antiobiotic) is also used to treat it.

This research lab is studying it and this doctor (Pimentel) has written a book about it: http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Research/Research-Labs/Pimentel-...

Re: Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

#43

Post by jarmitage »

hammock wrote: post #14

What are "probiotics"? How do we know which bacteria are the ones we need, and do all probiotics contain the same cocktail or different strains? Seems like saying "take probiotics" is insufficient.

This is a fairly decent introduction to the topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mioR_WrkRaU

This book is also doing the rounds but I'm not sure how good it actually is

http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Maker-Microbes-Protect-Brain%C2%...

Re: Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

#44

Post by unclebucknasty »

Cheyana wrote: post #25
Jack000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a difference between prescription probiotics vs say probiotic yogurt or over the counter supplements? I've also had digestive problems for years that may have been the result of antibiotics.

Honestly, I don't think probiotic yogurt really contains as much of the bacteria as you would need to affect your system. I bought two 4-packs of that stuff and ate them over the course of a week as a replacement for the over the counter stuff, just to see if it would help. No effect whatsoever. Went back to the over the counter stuff (Udo's Choice, which is expensive, refrigerated stuff from Whole Foods) and I was r…

>*probiotic with 102 billion cells..."

That's the thing that gets me with probiotics/packaging: they list these counts that can vary widely and are sometimes seemingly astronomical.

It kind of implies that if some is good, then more is better. I've thought that there is certainly some level at which it's not good for you.

Logically, if a certain dosage is produced, then you assume it to have some therapeutic effect. So, adding an order of magnitude to a therapeutic dosage of something wouldn't seem universally harmless.

Re: Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

#45

Post by arikrak »

refurb wrote: post #26

I think saying that antibiotics "mess up" your gut microbiome is making a lot of assumptions. Your biome changes if your diet changes. Saying that "any change" is "messing things up" is something I don't think has been proven. Of course, there are risks of using antibiotic like C. difficile infections, but saying more than that is stretching the truth.

Right they don't say if it causes any harm. Antibiotics may occasionally have side effects, but lack of micro-biome diversity doesn't necessarily matter. If it made a big difference, you would expect to see more common side effects.

Re: Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

#47

Post by unclebucknasty »

davidw wrote: post #19
s_q_b wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to the anec-data, conversely, I was refused antibiotics for years in the United States as a child, and it was only after switching physicians and careful monitoring that they realized my sinuses were severely infected. I've been put through the gamut of antibiotics since, and noticed no change in digestion, temperament, allergies or any other adverse effects.

Don't get the downvotes. Sinus infections are a serious quality of life issue for some of us. I've had them drag on for weeks, then after a day of antibiotics, I feel like a new man.

Wow. Which antibiotic(s)? I've found that I don't generally get a noticeable therapeutic effect until near the end of the antibiotics course with sinusitis.

Re: Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

#48

Post by XorNot »

Duhck wrote: post #6
Natsu wrote: post #2

I simply took a probiotic after being on antibiotics for a couple months and it had a side effect of curing a lot of digestive problems I used to have. So there's that, too. Incidentally, my doctor was the one who advised this. EDIT: The probiotic in my case was capsules of 15B cells of Lactobasillus GG. Marketing copy on the box suggests this is the "most clinically studied probiotic strain" but I'm not able to veri…

I actually have had similar problems. In the past when I take antibiotics it fixes my GI problems.

I've done this as well. A one week course produces a marked improvement.

Re: Single course of antibiotics can mess up the gut microbiome for a year

#50

Post by justboxing »

sparkie wrote: post #13
haswell wrote: post #4

I went through my entire childhood without ever getting sick enough to need antibiotics. Then, I managed to catch strep in my early 20s, and went on a course of antibiotics to take care of it. This is of course purely anecdotal, but the following year was pure hell from a digestive system standpoint, and looking back, I'm pretty sure it was tied to that course of antibiotics. Thankfully, things cleared up on their ow…

Had similar experience. Had allergic reaction to penicillin first prescription, which triggered my full body to come out in itchy hives. Went through 3 courses of different antibiotics until I was fit enough to get out of bed. Had bad guts for a couple of years following, which was usually an alternation between diarrhea and constipation. Sometimes I'd sit on the throne several times a day and no movement, except muc…

Thanks for sharing your story @sparkie. Doesn't sound like a whole of fun, what you went through.

Do you know of any high-fiber low-calorie non-meat, non-diary foods? Also, does the %age of soluble vs insoluble fiber matter, or no?

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