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Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

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Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#41
One can see this as one more Belgian eccentricity, and the list is long. But this is bound to generalise. The amount of data collected throught tracking is awfully intrusive. Between google, facebook, linkedin, and the hundreds of ad networks, one can know pretty much anything there is to know on someone: network of friends, political opinions, sexual preferences, health problems, spending habbits, etc. It is bound to become illegal ultimately, when politicians finally get a clue.

I am not sure it would help however. Making something illegal only makes sense if it's enforceable. Making tracking illegal is like making hacking into systems illegal. If the offender is based in another country there is very little one can do anyway. Therefore to me the solution has to be technological. Encryption, strict first party cookies/data/javascript is the only realistic response. The browser as it is is broken.

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#42
post #24

Just so people are clear -- Even if you are not using Facebook, even if none of your friends ever use Facebok or tag you in any content, Facebook is maintaining a shadow profile on you. They have your web browsing habits from the Like button, and in many countries (such as the United States) they have bought data from data brokers such as Datalogix to gain access to your grocery store purchases and other data. They c…

Facebook explicitly deny creating 'shadow profiles' and I'm not aware of any proof that they do so, have I overlooked this somehow?

I was interested in this too, and I'm in Europe and submitted a formal request for data. I've never used Facebook but because I'm active in a number of community groups, my name comes up on the occasional Facebook page and I'm in photos taken at some events.

At the time I was using a catchall email address so I entered facebook@(my-domain-dot-tld) which is all they used to search for a match. Because that wasn't a real email address I wasn't surprised that in their response they claimed to hold none of my personal data, though that seems a bit weaselly.

Here is their email reply from 2013:

Hi,

We've received your request for information about the possible storage of your personal data.

There isn't a Facebook account associated with the email address from which you are writing. This might be because you don't have a Facebook account or because you already deleted your account. In either of these cases, we do not hold any of your personal data.

Please refer to our Privacy Policy (also called “Data Use Policy”) for more information:

https://www.facebook.com/about/privacy

It contains a description of: - The categories of data being processed by Facebook - The personal data that Facebook receives from Facebook members - The purpose or purposes of the processing of such data - The source or sources(s) of the data, if known - The recipients or categories of recipients to whom Facebook members’ personal data are or may be disclosed

If you're referring to an account associated with another email address, please use that email address to file a new request:

https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/?id=166828260073047

Once we receive your request, we'll take further steps to assist you.

Thanks, The Facebook Team

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#43
post #24

Just so people are clear -- Even if you are not using Facebook, even if none of your friends ever use Facebok or tag you in any content, Facebook is maintaining a shadow profile on you. They have your web browsing habits from the Like button, and in many countries (such as the United States) they have bought data from data brokers such as Datalogix to gain access to your grocery store purchases and other data. They c…

Facebook explicitly deny creating 'shadow profiles' and I'm not aware of any proof that they do so, have I overlooked this somehow? I was interested in this too, and I'm in Europe and submitted a formal request for data. I've never used Facebook but because I'm active in a number of community groups, my name comes up on the occasional Facebook page and I'm in photos taken at some events. At the time I was using a cat…

I suspect that you need to ask a very specific question to get Facebook to reveal what they collect about you.

And I think there's a bunch of information that the EU does think is personal that Facebook thinks is not personal.

We probably need some researchers to send a bunch of requests in for different types of data.

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#44

How about we learn to deal with the fact that they're not storing data that is yours in the sense of ownership, but only in the sense that it's about you? They're not storing data for no reason; They are storing data their customers have provided for the purposes of contacting you. They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with. The nasty 90s database-dump sharing is ove…

> I have the right to a little black book. I have a right to a diary that calls you names.

Yes, you do [1], and that's not relevant to any of these discussions, as it's not been challenged.

> I have a right to free speech, and sometimes your name is on my lips.

If you are speaking as a private individual or you are publishing an article in a newspaper, yes, there are very few limits to your speech in the EU as long as you're not slandering someone.

But if you are operating as a business and telling another company details about me that can be used to identify me, then your rights are strictly limited in the EU, as the right to privacy is seen to trump the right of commercial speech.

[1] With a caveat: If you are using your "little black book" to support commercial activities such as sales, it may be considered a relevant filing system subject to data protection rules in at least some EU countries. But a personal address book would not be affected.

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#45
post #8

How about not singling out FB and forbid the same to Google and others as well?

Are you concerned that they are being unfairly partial by not charging at all the actors at once, or do you feel that addressing Facebook separately is futile for pragmatic reasons?

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#46
post #39
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, $94MM a year is still probably not worth it just to store non-users data from Belgium.

All they need is a simple filter by country of IP. The question is rather they are willing to comply given that this may spread across Europe very quickly.

It will spread.

Basically, if Facebook is really building up profiles of people, then the EU standpoint is clear across the board that you don't even need to be able to actually name the person from the data in order to be governed by the data protection laws, and e.g. details like IP addresses that are not considered personally identifiable by themselves easily becomes so when combined with other data.

It is very unlikely that they are compliant anywhere in the EEA if they're not compliant in Belgium.

Their argument that they're only subject to privacy laws in Ireland is a total non-starter, as it "worst case" for Belgian authorities just means they'll have to go after Facebook in Ireland, and given that all EEA countries have privacy legislation closely modelled after the Data Protection Directive, it's highly unlikely they'll get a better result there (and if they do, it'll get appealed, and if they win an appeal, the law is likely to get changed.

If they are maintaining shadow profiles, then what they do is very, very obviously at odds with the principles the Directive are based on). More likely I'd expect Belgian courts to insist they have jurisdiction on behalf of victims in Belgium.

In either case, as soon as this case is concluded, you can expect a bunch of other EEA states to pile on.

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that data is worth 91M euros/98M USD a year? I don't, and I doubt Facebook (or its investors) do either. That's a strong opening salvo.

That's a strong opening salvo. And so far it's only from one nation. Much of Europe shares a stronger belief in things like privacy and data protection than the US, and much of Europe has law in place to defend such things if the political will is there. Facebook can't afford to face fines at significant multiples of that scale, and even if it could, it's just asking for more severe action if it tries to force the is…

Specifically, all of the EEA (EU + Norway and Iceland) has data protection acts that are specifically harmonized to comply with the EU Data Protection Directive.

There are quite few scenarios where they'd be in breach of Belgian data protection legislation without also being in breach of the data protection laws of 29 other EEA countries.

The odds of EU wide action will dramatically rise the moment one or more countries find them in breach.

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