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The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#41

Post by clumsysmurf »

nikolay wrote: post #40

How is it better than Ceylon 1.2? Ceylon compiles to JVM bytecode, JavaScript, Dart, and will to LLVM in the future. As a language, it's a great superset of Java. I posted [0] about the great new Ceylon 1.2 (which is backed by Red Hat), and nobody seemed to care, but there's so much hype about Kotlin - I don't get it! [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10474126

I suspect much of the excitement around Kotlin is coming from Android developers that see the language as their deliverance from Java 6.5.

Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#42

Post by whateveracct »

strictfp wrote: post #34
merb wrote: post #31

it would be great if playframework also had kotlin support. The problem here is that kotlin has no sbt support.

Is Play any good these days? Tried it when it was new, was an utter mess. Found a couple of bugs within the first hour or so...

I know that Play 2 is happily used in production all over the place. I'm guessing it's a lot better than when you used it.

Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#43

Post by commentzorro »

nikolay wrote: post #40

How is it better than Ceylon 1.2? Ceylon compiles to JVM bytecode, JavaScript, Dart, and will to LLVM in the future. As a language, it's a great superset of Java. I posted [0] about the great new Ceylon 1.2 (which is backed by Red Hat), and nobody seemed to care, but there's so much hype about Kotlin - I don't get it! [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10474126

Don't know Ceylon or Kotlin except superficial poking around the websites.

So, let me ask you, how is Ceylon better than Kotlin? I'd like to see a good write-up (separate blog post) that compares and contrasts the two. What are use cases where one language would be significantly better than the other?

(Edit) Wow! Did not expect such a dearth of samples (for both languages) on Rosetta Code.

http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Ceylon

http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Kotlin

and only one overlap:

http://rosetta.alhur.es/compare/Ceylon/Kotlin/#

Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#44

Post by merb »

strictfp wrote: post #34
merb wrote: post #31

it would be great if playframework also had kotlin support. The problem here is that kotlin has no sbt support.

Is Play any good these days? Tried it when it was new, was an utter mess. Found a couple of bugs within the first hour or so...

we still hit a great but since we support legacy printer devices on our applications which using ssl over a custom certificate which changes over every printer. So we would need to have a function that accepts any cerificate inside the ws-client of play. unfortunatly the acceptAllCerts doesn't work in play 2.4+. however we didn't hit more bugs, yet and using it since 2.1

Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#46

Post by pron »

nikolay wrote: post #40

How is it better than Ceylon 1.2? Ceylon compiles to JVM bytecode, JavaScript, Dart, and will to LLVM in the future. As a language, it's a great superset of Java. I posted [0] about the great new Ceylon 1.2 (which is backed by Red Hat), and nobody seemed to care, but there's so much hype about Kotlin - I don't get it! [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10474126

Not better -- different. In my opinion, it's best to read the two language's design goals to understand the difference (as those matter a lot more than any particular feature). The Kotlin design goals are outlined in the blog post, and the Ceylon design goals can be found here[1]. IMO, a TLDR would be: Ceylon attempts to replace not just the Java language but also the standard libraries, while Kotlin intends to upgrade the language only and blend into the existing ecosystem. That difference explains many if not most of the decisions regarding the particular features of each language.

[1]: http://ceylon-lang.org/documentation/1.1/faq/ + http://ceylon-lang.org/blog/2012/01/10/goals/

Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#47

Post by mercurial »

thom_nic wrote: post #38
Drup wrote: post #37

Comparison with Ceylon ?

Here's a preso: https://speakerdeck.com/evacchi/kotlin-and-ceylon-modern-pro... I can't say I've used Ceylon much but I think Kotlin's syntax is much nicer and it's much easier to approach than Scala.

I'd imagine having Jetbrains behind Kotlin means much better tooling, which is likely to be more important for a lot of people than language features like ADTs.

Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#48

Post by commentzorro »

kcorbitt wrote: post #20
platz wrote: post #15

are non-exhaustive pattern matches in kotlin warnings, errors, or neither? looks like from the docs: "If `when` is used as an expression, the `else` branch is mandatory, unless the compiler can prove that all possible cases are covered with branch conditions." So it is an error, I assume?

With the caveat that I haven't tried it myself: > What about pattern matching? This is where the word “sealed” above comes in handy; we can do an exhaustive pattern match without an else/otherwise branch from https://medium.com/@octskyward/kotlin-fp-3bf63a17d64a#.8dbwa...

This looks to be single value matching only and no compile time exhaustion checks. This looks like really nice (i.e. sugary) alternative to switch but not quite pattern matching.

Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#49

Post by [deleted] »

nikolay wrote: post #40

How is it better than Ceylon 1.2? Ceylon compiles to JVM bytecode, JavaScript, Dart, and will to LLVM in the future. As a language, it's a great superset of Java. I posted [0] about the great new Ceylon 1.2 (which is backed by Red Hat), and nobody seemed to care, but there's so much hype about Kotlin - I don't get it! [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10474126

[deleted]

Re: The Kotlin Language: 1.0 Beta Is Here

#50

Post by udalov »

platz wrote: post #15

are non-exhaustive pattern matches in kotlin warnings, errors, or neither? looks like from the docs: "If `when` is used as an expression, the `else` branch is mandatory, unless the compiler can prove that all possible cases are covered with branch conditions." So it is an error, I assume?

It's an error only when the 'when'-expression is used as a value, like assigned to a property, passed as an argument or returned from a function. Otherwise it's not an error. There's also a warning for matching enum values over an incomplete set of enum entries, but otherwise non-exhaustive 'when'-expression is green code.

You can basically consider 'when'-expressions to be syntax sugar over Java's if-else or ternary operator (?:) chains.

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