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Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

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Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#41
post #2

I had a (male) colleague once argue with me that men and women had no differences in mentality due to testosterone. The desire to believe in equality is weird sometimes. To be clear, I don't think there is any difference in generic mental abilities due to gender / sex, but it seems clear that brains would be affected by hormonal differences - for instance I have a thyroid deficiency, and I can really feel it when I'm…

>I had a (male) colleague once argue with me that men and women had no differences in mentality due to testosterone. The desire to believe in equality is weird sometimes.

Not to mention that there are lots of other differences that can have an impact, from the generally reduced physical strength, to birth related effects all the way down to increased life span...

Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#42

Beautiful example of politics driving research. They only studied something they knew was a disadvantage for males, while the first thing everybody is curious about is how the IQ changed, if it changed: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/dr-paul-i...

It's a little weird to say males have higher IQ on average. As I understand it (I'm not an IQ expert, just some internet know-it-all), women score better on some categories of questions, as do men, so when you put together a test, you try to make sure it balances out so both get the same average.

So reality is weird, but manipulating tests to ensure certain results is perfectly fine?

Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little weird to say males have higher IQ on average. As I understand it (I'm not an IQ expert, just some internet know-it-all), women score better on some categories of questions, as do men, so when you put together a test, you try to make sure it balances out so both get the same average.

AFAIK the average is the same, but males have a higher variance, meaning that they are more likely to be found at the dumber and smarter ends of the population, while there are more women of average intelligence.

http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Males-have-gr...

Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#44
post #20
post #4

I have MtF friend. We knew each other when we still we're both officially men. We became roommates for a year when she was mid transition. I thought that would be cool, because I might understand women better now that I had somebody who had seen the both perspectives. How it is to be a man and how it is to be a woman. I was wrong. She had never understood anything about manhood. Now she didn't even pretend anymore. I…

Could you elaborate more? What are some of the differences she didn't understand?

abathur already got the gist of the subject.

If I asked her what women generally don't understand about men, she was unable to answer.

If I asked her what men don't understand about women, she replied with the standard feminist propaganda.

She had no special insight why women do things the way they do. (makeup, skirts, etc.) And she was unable to spot any non obvious differences between the sexes.

She's really not stupid. Just lacking perspective. Just like I am, but from different point of view.

Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK the average is the same, but males have a higher variance, meaning that they are more likely to be found at the dumber and smarter ends of the population, while there are more women of average intelligence.

http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Males-have-gr...

Wow, this is new to me... Please note, however, that this is an indirect measurement.

Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#46

It's unfortunate that changes in the brain is all they studied. If you have 18 people who are undergoing this transition, it would be useful to document any other changes and note them as candidates for further study. For example, many people will remark on an increased sex drive (not a surprise considering the testosterone), but the way people actually think about and treat the opposite gender seems to change as wel…

> It's unfortunate that changes in the brain is all they studied. If you have 18 people who are undergoing this transition, it would be useful to document any other changes and note them as candidates for further study.

As a transman with a background in the sciences (social), I was actually really disappointed that there weren't any attempts to systematically gather this data when I was transitioning. I agree, it could bring a lot of data to the table that otherwise can't be ethically collected. Of course, in reporting any correlations there would need to be clear indications that the data came from the transexual community.

> many people will remark on an increased sex drive (not a surprise considering the testosterone)

Holy smokes! I was prepared for an increase, but I was totally not prepared for the amount of increase! I transitioned several years ago, and this change was definitely the one I was least prepared for.

> but the way people actually think about and treat the opposite gender seems to change as well.

Caveats galore: I don't think I treat the "opposite gender" any differently (to be clear, I was born in a female body, but identify as a guy, so "opposite gender" for me has always been women). But, I am very definitely treated differently BY many people, including women, now that I pass, i.e. I am seen as guy. As a result, I definitely treat individuals of the opposite gender differently because of how they treat me. For example, I can't stand women who complain about being discriminated against, but then clearly and unambiguously discriminate against me because I appear to be a privileged white guy. I simply couldn't judge this when I passed as a woman (I was aware that it happened, but without being a participant it's hard to determine whether that is in fact what's happening.) I now pass enough that I've experienced this with quite a few women. I've also dealt with more than a few women who are so hell bent on how they've been wronged, that they won't work with me because I'm a guy. The irony is that because I pass, when I'm in predominantly or exclusively male groups, I'm better able to argue for things which will reduce actual discrimination and bias against women.

Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little weird to say males have higher IQ on average. As I understand it (I'm not an IQ expert, just some internet know-it-all), women score better on some categories of questions, as do men, so when you put together a test, you try to make sure it balances out so both get the same average.

So reality is weird, but manipulating tests to ensure certain results is perfectly fine?

You seem argumentative.

Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So reality is weird, but manipulating tests to ensure certain results is perfectly fine?

You seem argumentative.

In what brave new world is this a bad thing?

Re: Research: testosterone changes brain structures in female-to-male transsexuals [pdf]

#49
post #21
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did your colleague know about mental rotation tests?[1] Men perform significantly better than women at these. And among men, mental rotation ability is correlated with testosterone levels.[2] I could see your buddy arguing that culture was responsible for behavioral differences such as violent tendencies, but the same dismissal can't be made of this test. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_rotation 2. http://www…

As esailija posted elsewhere in this thread, at least one study has shown that gender differences in mental rotation tasks can be eliminated through training.

In the "soft" sciences, about 1/3 of all studies get the wrong result.

This means you can always find a study supporting what you want to believe.

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