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East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

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Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#41

Post by mtgx »

Alex3917 wrote: post #5
hga wrote: post #3

Heh. More evidence for something I've been hearing for a while, the mass quantities of patent lawsuits in this "rocket docket" has had the side effect of educating everyone in it about this area of law, and it's getting harder to win a bad case.

All of the software patent trolls are pretty much going to be out of business in the next 12 - 18 months. It costs millions of dollars to run these operations, and most of them haven't been making any income for 2+ years now. All the smart trolls have moved on to trolling PTAB, and the dumb ones are just holding out hope that they either hit one last jackpot or else find some other way to monetize their portfolio.

Seems Microsoft made the patent "deal" with Google just in time. Soon they wouldn't have had any leverage to "threaten" companies with patent lawsuits.

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#42

Post by jMyles »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #37

Software patents are pitched as a policy choice that encourages programmers by giving them some financial incentive to invent more software. That's how they have been pitched to programmers and the American people. However, after having worked in the patent industry for a few years now, I can tell you software patents are really just a mechanism to redistribute the wealth of engineers to lawyers. Period. That's the e…

Sometimes, there's a comment that just so tersely and poignantly coalescences my objection to a public policy of enormous import but minuscule attention. This is one of those.

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#43

Post by bdcravens »

saosebastiao wrote: post #6

Is it normal in other areas of the law for the plaintiff to be able to choose the (extremely favorable) district and judge for the case? Cause I can't imagine this happening in any other area of law, either civil or criminal. It just doesn't seem right, especially when the bias is so clearly observable. IANAL though...

Just speaking in general here, I can't think of any specific examples. Are there civil (not criminal) cases that have a heavy racial component where it would be favorable to file in an area with a particular demographic mix?

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#44

Post by throwawaykf05 »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #37

Software patents are pitched as a policy choice that encourages programmers by giving them some financial incentive to invent more software. That's how they have been pitched to programmers and the American people. However, after having worked in the patent industry for a few years now, I can tell you software patents are really just a mechanism to redistribute the wealth of engineers to lawyers. Period. That's the e…

Here's the thing: It's not us engineers who pay the lawyers. It's our employers. We don't even get a say in the matter, and over time various changes in the law have simply tipped the balance even more in favor of the employers. Your employer can file a patent on your work whether you cooperate or not.

And it's not like they are going to pay us more if they stop filing patents. In fact, many firms pay a bonus if your work results in a patent (or even a patent application.) Clearly they see some value in them, and they have reasons to.

And this is true of all patents, btw, not just in software.

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#45

Post by hga »

monochromatic wrote: post #36
dragonwriter wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its EDTX, where the judges (and everyone else, including the local jury pool) have over time gotten more patent savvy, because of the propensity to file patent cases in that district. Which is kind of the point of the "educating everyone" statement, as I understand it.

I guess. I dunno, I just always see lots of comments about how the EDTX judges are awful/pro-patent/getting kickbacks/whatever. So the idea that, hey, they just needed to be educated by presiding over a few cases... it's odd.

A lot of the comments I've seen to that effect are rank bigotry (I suppose I should disclaim I myself am from flyover country, extreme SW Missouri, which is culturally part of the South, and for that matter my mother is Cajun).

What's so difficult to believe about people being able to learn through experience? If any of these EDTX judges got reversed on appeal, that would have been a learning experience ^_^.

And dragonwriter's understanding is correct.

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#46

Post by jaredhansen »

throwawaykf05 wrote: post #44
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #37

Software patents are pitched as a policy choice that encourages programmers by giving them some financial incentive to invent more software. That's how they have been pitched to programmers and the American people. However, after having worked in the patent industry for a few years now, I can tell you software patents are really just a mechanism to redistribute the wealth of engineers to lawyers. Period. That's the e…

Here's the thing: It's not us engineers who pay the lawyers. It's our employers. We don't even get a say in the matter, and over time various changes in the law have simply tipped the balance even more in favor of the employers. Your employer can file a patent on your work whether you cooperate or not. And it's not like they are going to pay us more if they stop filing patents. In fact, many firms pay a bonus if your…

>And it's not like they are going to pay us more if they stop filing patents.

This is actually not true at all. The cost here isn't in the filing of the patents; it's in the nightmarish patent system that results in absurd litigation and related expenses. If the patent system were reformed to avoid this kind of expense, the company would have lower operating costs, which would be distributed in some way. While it's possible I suppose that 100% of those savings would be collected by shareholders as profit, it's much more likely that, like with anything else, the cost reductions would simply contribute to the size of the total pie, which would be split among owners and employees in proportions probably roughly similar to how it's split today.

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#47

Post by throwawaykf05 »

bsimpson wrote: post #39

> reformed rules would have forced trolls like eDekka to actually explain how their targets infringe their patents. However, that's not currently a requirement How is it even possible to sue somebody for something you can't show that they did?

You are supposed to prove it during the lawsuit, but you can get one filed just on "belief" and vague accusations. This stays the lawyers bills running for the defendant while the plaintiff can just wait, which is a tactic often resulting in early settlements.

In the US there is something called rule 11 that prevents you from filing bad faith lawsuits, but it is a pretty low bar. IMO if this is strengthened by, say, requiring detailed claim charts up front, it can go a long way in deterring nuisance lawsuits.

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#48

Post by bru_ »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #37

Software patents are pitched as a policy choice that encourages programmers by giving them some financial incentive to invent more software. That's how they have been pitched to programmers and the American people. However, after having worked in the patent industry for a few years now, I can tell you software patents are really just a mechanism to redistribute the wealth of engineers to lawyers. Period. That's the e…

I read an article by the Economist a few years ago supporting a more general notion that the legal system is subject to a natural increase in the quantity of superfluous fees that are tacked on like pork due to the fact that the legal system is run by lawyers, who naturally like policies and systems that help lawyers make money.

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#49

Post by throwawaykf05 »

jaredhansen wrote: post #46
throwawaykf05 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing: It's not us engineers who pay the lawyers. It's our employers. We don't even get a say in the matter, and over time various changes in the law have simply tipped the balance even more in favor of the employers. Your employer can file a patent on your work whether you cooperate or not. And it's not like they are going to pay us more if they stop filing patents. In fact, many firms pay a bonus if your…

>And it's not like they are going to pay us more if they stop filing patents. This is actually not true at all. The cost here isn't in the filing of the patents; it's in the nightmarish patent system that results in absurd litigation and related expenses. If the patent system were reformed to avoid this kind of expense, the company would have lower operating costs, which would be distributed in some way. While it's p…

That sounds plausible, but we all know that if there's a bigger pie, almost always the spoils go to the owners and employees get peanuts. Google and Apple are sitting on billions in cash and yet they colluded to essentially keep wages down.

Re: East Texas judge throws out 168 patent cases

#50

Post by fredkbloggs »

anigbrowl wrote: post #23
saosebastiao wrote: post #6

Is it normal in other areas of the law for the plaintiff to be able to choose the (extremely favorable) district and judge for the case? Cause I can't imagine this happening in any other area of law, either civil or criminal. It just doesn't seem right, especially when the bias is so clearly observable. IANAL though...

Oh yes - and not just plaintiffs. Next time you are presented with a contract or user agreement, browse through it looking for the section about 'choice of law', and you'll notice that often you are asked to accept that the rules of a particular jurisdiction will apply in the event of any dispute.

Yes although 9 times in 10 it's wherever the corporation is headquartered. That's usually their home turf, not yours, so it may help them, but mostly it's that they don't want to be bothered associating local counsel 100 times a year. It's rare for someone to insist on contractual choice of venue that's some arbitrary other location (like East Texas usually is).
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