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Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL (1982)

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Re: Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL (1982)

#41
post #28
post #16

This is the post referenced in the opening of The Story of Mel; which may also be of interest. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html

Both are great epics of hacking history. I just wonder whether there are any more?

True, those are also good ones. Although I have to say the story of Mel is still my favourite :-)

Re: Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL (1982)

#43
post #34

Although it's meant to be sarcastic, I believe it nicely exposes typical things developers used to argue about back then, not that different from modern arguments about JS vs compiled-to-js, elixir vs erlang, GC vs manual memory management, etc. Anybody knows some more serious piece from those times that would show the actual arguments of, say, PASCAL opponents?

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/bwk-on-pasc... By Brian Kernighan This was written in 1981, so a lot changed after he wrote this.

He describes an old pascal dialect http://wiki.freepascal.org/Why_Pascal_is_Not_My_Favorite_Pro...

Re: Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL (1982)

#44
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing Delphi really did wrong was to make GUI programming too easy. It was just too simple, too tempting, to just put all your code into your MainForm.pas, making it grow to over 10'000 LOC. If (and only if) the programmers took care to avoid code duplication and cared about writing good, solid code, Delphi rocked. Just like Lazarus ( http://www.lazarus-ide.org/ ) does today. One of my weapons of choice nowad…

The only thing I wish it had is more documentation for those of us who never did any Pascal. I love Lazarus too, but it's quite a lot to take in when you're used to other languages. I basically have to "Guess" how to write code, which can become a lot more work with Delphi / FreePascal.

Try to get your hands on an old copy of Delphi 1 or 2. Thousands of pages of documentation in PDF format. Docs used to be so much better back then, it's sad. I still have a copy of Delphi 7 lying around just because the help system was/is so good.

Re: Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL (1982)

#45

> Compilers with array bounds checking (...) stifle creativity, (...) and make it impossible to modify the operating system code with negative subscripts. Absolute classic. The words to live by.

I know and as some one who did both Fortran for both billing systems and a CFD model of the CFR (commercial fast breeder aka a mommy bomb ) I do get the humor in ways some younger readers might not

Re: Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL (1982)

#46
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have actual nightmares about developing in Delphi. I can't believe there's a Delphi project that people speak this highly of.

The one thing Delphi really did wrong was to make GUI programming too easy. It was just too simple, too tempting, to just put all your code into your MainForm.pas, making it grow to over 10'000 LOC. If (and only if) the programmers took care to avoid code duplication and cared about writing good, solid code, Delphi rocked. Just like Lazarus ( http://www.lazarus-ide.org/ ) does today. One of my weapons of choice nowad…

Hah, the same thing could really be said of VB.Net

Re: Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL (1982)

#48

Today this is true for a more obvious reason; Pascal is legacy.

We are actually using pascal for a very large project in healthcare (journal management). There is nothing wrong with the language, per se even though it is not the fanciest one.

Our codebase is one of the cleanest I have worked with, and it compiles very fast. We are using freepascal, and even though I would not use it for my hobby projects (which I try to do mostly in scheme or factor) I would say it is one of the more pleasant languages I have worked in.

Re: Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL (1982)

#49
post #28
post #16

This is the post referenced in the opening of The Story of Mel; which may also be of interest. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html

Both are great epics of hacking history. I just wonder whether there are any more?

I love The Black Team: http://www.penzba.co.uk/GreybeardStories/TheBlackTeam.html
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