Earlier quoted context omitted.
The occasional stuttering is actually due to GC pauses.
That takes me back to Max Headroom!
This thread takes me back to Reddit.
A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
41–50 of 172 posts
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#42It's fascinating that this is so close to reality, at least in terms of preserving the information that encodes our memories and identities. Of course there is the issue of reviving the person, either biologically or digitally. As computing power grows, I don't see any barrier to simulating an entire human brain. Sure it will take time: according to this[0] and applying Moore's law, it will take about 60 years before…
>and applying Moore's law, it will take about 60 years before we can simulate a brain in real time with a single machine.
What Moore's law? This has already stopped.
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#43Why are we so scared of death, to be nothing. Why do we have to cling on to someone's memories,is it because it gives some sense of security? It is just bizarre to reduce the beauty of life to some some little affair of holding on to someone's memories. Death is as beautiful as birth. We should break past the ridiculous taboos surrounding death and discuss it openly as to what it means to die. Edit: Jiddu K on death,…
I can't say for sure that I won't ever choose to opt out of the rest of forever, but for now there are things I want to do, places I want to see, people I want to spend time with, or get to know. I'm not universally against death; when anyone chooses to die, that's their choice, modulo some concerns about depression-induced suicide. I'm against involuntary death. I want sufficient medical technology to keep people alive for as long as they choose.
Death may be beautiful. I disagree, but I can see how some people might think that. I hear that the view from the top of mount everest is quite something, but does that mean there's no reason you might complain if someone broke into your house, dragged you off, flew you up there, and dumped you at the top against your will?
I absolutely agree with you that it would be great if we could learn as a society to discuss death more openly. I think that a big part of what might help that happen would be sufficient medical technology that death mostly only happens voluntarily.
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#44With all the suffering, injustice, unequal opportunity and privilege in the world, this to me is the epitome of narcissism and selfishness.
Would you donate to this rather than to social services for, for example, thousands of homeless children in New York City alone?
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#45Cryonics is one of those things that's hard to evaluate. On the face of it, it seems insane. You're essentially making a bet that someone will find something useful to do with a frozen brain -- and that your estate will be able to afford the procedure -- before the company you've entrusted your brain to either makes a mistake or collapses. Given the near-total lack of progress on the former front (there's been consid…
It's not that insane when compared to the alternative.
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#46It's fascinating that this is so close to reality, at least in terms of preserving the information that encodes our memories and identities. Of course there is the issue of reviving the person, either biologically or digitally. As computing power grows, I don't see any barrier to simulating an entire human brain. Sure it will take time: according to this[0] and applying Moore's law, it will take about 60 years before…
Which Greg Egan story is that?
Possibly he refers to Permutation City. Absolutely necessary read.
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#47Cryonics is one of those things that's hard to evaluate. On the face of it, it seems insane. You're essentially making a bet that someone will find something useful to do with a frozen brain -- and that your estate will be able to afford the procedure -- before the company you've entrusted your brain to either makes a mistake or collapses. Given the near-total lack of progress on the former front (there's been consid…
Cryonics is pretty unlikely to succeed! I'm signed up for cryonics through Alcor, and I am not confident at all that there's much chance that I'll be revived post-vitrification. I do it because there's an infinitely greater chance of life after vitrification than there is of life after burial, or life after cremation. I see it as a low-percentage last-chance life support. It's early and underdeveloped and flawed in many ways, but it's still the best (only) game in town for when all other medical technology has failed.
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#48Some reading material for those interesting in the current state of cryonics development and research, starting with an overview and moving on. Modern cryopreservation aims for vitrification, not freezing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics http://alcor.org/sciencefaq.htm http://www.brainpreservation.org/competitors/ The evidence assembled to date provides a reasonable expectation that the fine structure of the b…
>There is a sizable fraction of the futurist community who approach cryonics with the pattern identity view of being satisfied with a copy of their mind running in emulation at some point in the future, the original vitrified substrate then discarded
Since we loose continuity when we sleep, is the people waking up "us"? The only reason we say "yes" to that, is because it's the same body -- not because continuity of conscious existence wasn't lost.
>Not very satisfying from the continuity identity perspective; a copy of you is not you.
Consider the classic "Ship of Theseus" way: while the subject is awake, his brain is replaced neuron by neuron by artificial neurons. He is conscious for the whole process.
In the end of the procedure, his whole brain is now an electronic one. We follow the same steps and replace all his body parts.
Now consider that at the same time, the old body is re-assembled from the parts taken out.
Is his new electronic copy or the old one the real "he"?
I'd say, favoring continuity, and since the electronic brain/body remained always conscious as it was being built, whereas the meat-brain got conscious after the transfer was over (brain matter being placed there piece by piece), it's the electronic one that's the real.
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#49It's fascinating that this is so close to reality, at least in terms of preserving the information that encodes our memories and identities. Of course there is the issue of reviving the person, either biologically or digitally. As computing power grows, I don't see any barrier to simulating an entire human brain. Sure it will take time: according to this[0] and applying Moore's law, it will take about 60 years before…
> and applying Moore's law, it will take about 60 years before we can simulate a brain in real time with a single machine. What Moore's law? This has already stopped.
Re Moore's law, the best answer I could get was from Intel via Wikipedia[0] "our cadence today is closer to two and a half years than two." So I wouldn't call that "stopped" but slowed. On the other hand, there are other kinds of advancement that don't really fit into any kind of "law" but might make up for this slowdown, resulting in long term exponential growth, e.g. the transition from CPU to GPU computing.
Re: A Dying Young Woman’s Hope in Cryonics and a Future
#50Cryonics is one of those things that's hard to evaluate. On the face of it, it seems insane. You're essentially making a bet that someone will find something useful to do with a frozen brain -- and that your estate will be able to afford the procedure -- before the company you've entrusted your brain to either makes a mistake or collapses. Given the near-total lack of progress on the former front (there's been consid…
Surprisingly, the financial aspect of it is pretty manageable as explained by Max More (head of Alcor) [0]. Apparently if you have signed up for some kind of life-insurance, you simply pay your regular insurance fee, and direct them to give it to Alcor for your preservation if you die. Or if you wish to pay in total, I've heard it's ~$80K for head only. And ~$200K for whole body. Once I can afford any of the above op…
Just because that's what Alcor is asking for does not mean that they can actually deliver the service they promise for that amount. Frankly, I don't think any fixed amount is sufficient for a reasonable chance of a positive outcome. A lot can happen in a few hundred years.
If you believe they are honest and competent (which I do), there are factors to consider entirely beyond their control. Even if we assume that there are still humans around to run Alcor, that energy prices haven't skyrocketed, that cryonics haven't been made illegal for some reason, and that some kind of war or natural or man-made disaster hasn't wiped out the facility, there's still a rather high chance that some future management of Alcor will be either dishonest or incompetent and ruin the whole thing. On a 200 year scale, I'd place the odds of that alone above 90%, even if I assume maximally effective present management.
Again, this doesn't have any effect on the present benefits (hope, etc).