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Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

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Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#41

Post by rogeryu »

xhrpost wrote: post #27

What are people's thoughts/experiences with burnout happening without overtime? Over the past few years I've grown more and more bored at work. Even switching jobs from different ends of the spectrum didn't fix this. I can get myself into flow but it seems to take more and more will power as time goes on. Different tech challenges help, but it's nothing like my halcyon days of straight out of college. Of coming into…

You say you sleep decently. Do you really get enough sleep? Recently I've had the chance to work from home for a longer period - more than a month - and during that time slept longer and better and it made me realise that I really was tired, seriously tired. That's me of course, not you.

If work is boring, and different kind of jobs don't help, find something besides work: go running, go dancing, go do a theatre course, singing. I tried all kind of things and am open to try anything that seems interesting. I dance a lot, weekly, and it made my life a lot better. I don't say dancing is for you, but whatever you do, it should be fun, something to look forward to.

Maybe singing, dancing and theatre don't appeal to you. It didn't appeal to me, I thought I couldn't do that, that it was difficult. I'm a typical introvert, not artistic or creative, prefer to stay in the background, but all these things were a lot more fun than I ever had thought and I discovered a whole new life.

Don't try them all at once, start with one, give it a good chance, and don't give up if the first course isn't what you hoped for. Try another teacher or school, a different group. All these things come in many varieties and it can be a challenge to find what works for you. Each experience brings you closer to what you want, teaches you something. If you're afraid about something, that is especially interesting.

This didn't make my work better, but it made my life better. And it opens perspectives to new areas, possibly for work. Not that I want to be a dance teacher, but having a new look on life can change work as well.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#42

Post by protomyth »

spydum wrote: post #39
protomyth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"However, the search of personal devices after you've conducted business seems legitimate to me" So, the founder calls your personal cellphone on the weekend and asks a couple of business questions. You come in on Monday and they lawyer points to the clause in your contract. I'm pretty sure reasonable goes out the window. Intent and the words you signed need to match or you can get seriously hosed.

I see your point here. A principled person might refuse to answer the phone, or call back from the business phone, but that is fairly impractical I would admit. My only point here was it seems reasonable for the employer to ask for the world. If it's really worth getting spun up, perhaps you could find out if there is a better version of this boiler plate which respects your privacy. For what it's worth, at my own em…

"My only point here was it seems reasonable for the employer to ask for the world."

No, its not. We accept it, but its not reasonable, it just a CYA attitude than infects a lot of our business and political dealings. An employer should ask for exactly what they want and no more.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#43

Post by shostack »

x0x0 wrote: post #2

Random thoughts: It's nice to hear about a situation closer to most startup outcomes. When Matthew notes that someone sent him the acquisition terms and the founders made out well while line level / low level managers basically got nice severances, it's something everyone here should keep in mind. It's great if founders make out well as long as everyone else does too; it's when those outcomes diverge that it rankles.…

Often times companies/vendors don't find it worth it to pay legal to make these changes on edge cases, particularly if they have enough hungry people willing to work for them. There's also the worry that word will get around and more people will ask for exceptions (same or other).

So it is in fact easier and more cost effective to say "take it or leave it."

Not saying the clause is justified, because that was ridiculous, but it is interesting to get at the root of why they won't change it, and often pushing back consistently will get them to that point fairly quickly.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#44

Post by [deleted] »

xhrpost wrote: post #27

What are people's thoughts/experiences with burnout happening without overtime? Over the past few years I've grown more and more bored at work. Even switching jobs from different ends of the spectrum didn't fix this. I can get myself into flow but it seems to take more and more will power as time goes on. Different tech challenges help, but it's nothing like my halcyon days of straight out of college. Of coming into…

[deleted]

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#45

Post by [deleted] »

xhrpost wrote: post #27

What are people's thoughts/experiences with burnout happening without overtime? Over the past few years I've grown more and more bored at work. Even switching jobs from different ends of the spectrum didn't fix this. I can get myself into flow but it seems to take more and more will power as time goes on. Different tech challenges help, but it's nothing like my halcyon days of straight out of college. Of coming into…

[deleted]

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#46

Post by hessenwolf »

shostack wrote: post #31
klenwell wrote: post #11

> The sad thing about the metrics-driven performance culture the Times describes at Amazon is studies show overworked people perform worse. I'm glad the author made this point and backed it up with a reference. It reaffirms something I already believed (whether on the basis of personal experience, something I'd read before, or mere wishful thinking, I couldn't tell you so the reference helps). It is a sensible constr…

But what if "8 hours a day" isn't the magic number for everyone? What if for some people, the magic number to avoid burnout is 4 hours a day? Or the other end of the spectrum...12?

I'll not lie, I'm a 14, 14, 6, 4 kinda guy. Then Friday through Sunday is for playing, thinking, and reading, but mostly meeting up with people to exchange ideas, potentially with beer.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#47

Post by [deleted] »

exelius wrote: post #26
ska wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is as simple as that iff you never use your personal device for any business purpose. [update] This was unclear: I'm saying this relationship is simple if and only if you have not used your devices for business purposes. If you have, you need only hope that none of the clauses in your agreements (you did have a lawyer review these?) cover it.

Even if I used it for work purposes occasionally, they can go to court and prove that in the process of getting a subpoena and I'll happily comply. Due process exists for a reason; if you let any company examine your personal devices/data outside of a court order, they can use it for any purpose they want. Subpoenas are limited in scope, and everything is documented.

[deleted]

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#48

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

It seems to be a common sentiment that burnout is largely driven by how many hours a day you work. Why is that?

From what I've been taught burnout is the result of continuous stress. Where stress is more or less defined as a continuous sensation of being threatened.

I've seen people with perfectly normal workours become burnt out. I've even seen people working ten hours a week getting burnt out. The common factor thus not being the objectively measurable amount of work.

My own formula for diagnosing a work environment is more like Risk of Burnout = perception of expectations / perceptions of means to deliver

But a more useful model might be the SCARF-model presented in this tech talk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeJSXfXep4M

It seems to me that hours worked relates to issue of burnout more like lack of sleep to the risk of catching a cold. Potentially a big factor, but only incidentally.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#49

Post by xacaxulu »

I remember trying to describe burnout to my step-mom who is French. I kept trying to figure out how to say it in French and she joked that they don't have much of a phrase for it; the just say "le burnout" which I find rather telling. It seems like such an american problem that so many articles like these have to be written.

Re: Regretting the Golden Handcuffs: Beware the Costs of Burnout

#50

Post by brightball »

This deserves every ounce of attention that it can get and I definitely know the feeling. I worked about as hard as I could for a little over a year to save a 15 year old company from going under. I was the only developer/infrastructure person because we couldn't hire anybody else since it looked like a sinking ship.

I worked 24/7 (with a wife and 2 kids) on this beastly mix of 10 year old Perl and very inexperienced Rails code. Despite the hours, I was excited because I thought this was THE big opportunity.

At my one year review, the owners told me I wasn't working hard enough. I went from a high point to a low point overnight. Wrestled with it for about a month. Then while I was riding in the car with my wife I got a snarky hipchat message from the owner of the company and showed it to my wife.

She looked right at me and said, "Quit. Don't worry about the money, we will figure it out. I don't want you working for people like that and it's obvious what it's doing to you."

So I resigned. Told them I'd stay on for 30 days for transition but that it just wasn't the right place for me. The weight off my shoulders from resigning was ENORMOUS.

For about 2 months I struggled with what to do. All the experience I'd gained at that job had virtually made my resume and after the experience, just like you I wanted to find something MEANINGFUL to do. Something I could wake up every morning and know that what I was doing made a difference for the right reasons.

And the opportunity came 2 months later. I ended up turning down a job for twice the pay for what I knew was best in the long run. So far it has been and my wife and I have never been happier. This company treats employees better than any I've ever even heard of. Not silly perks but actual, life balance, we value you as a human being, feel free to move about the company if you want a different challenge...perks.

The only downside is that I'm pretty sure my wife will kill me if I ever lose this job. :-)

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