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India (2002)

jimrogers.com

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Re: India (2002)

#41

Post by 1971genocide »

1024core wrote: post #37

We (Indians) can look all over for the causes of what ails India, but not at the one place where a majority of the blame lies: ourselves. We will bemoan the corrupt system; but given a chance to make life a little bit easier, not hesitate to offer a bribe. We will spew venom at the useless politicians who do nothing but line their pockets; but then turn around and vote for one based on caste/religion. We will express…

I agree with you. But you are not giving India enough credit.

India has a corruption problem - and so does the americans, british, europeans, etc . Hell The LIBOR scandal is on 900 trillion dollars. And this is before I bring up 2008.

Privatization is not that answer. Look at the situation at Bangladesh if you want to see what privatization leads to.

Re: India (2002)

#42

Post by dang »

myth_buster wrote: post #34

Can a title be more vague? I think it may make sense to use this title in the original article as the site might carry some context but using it in HN doesn't seem too efficient.

A little inefficiency—not much, just enough to be a speed bump—is a good thing on the HN front page, because it interrupts the usual internet reflexes. Reflexive responses, being predictable, are not interesting. What we want are reflective responses. Reflection is a slower process, requiring a pause. So I think it's good if we readers have to work a little: it slows us down, and maybe activates better circuitry.

Re: India (2002)

#43

Post by a9entroy »

gnufied wrote: post #10
mehuln wrote: post #6

Funnily enough, after reading the first paragraph, it still sounds like a recent article even though it has been years. In fact, the country probably has taken two steps back under Manmohan Singh. To a certain extent, even if the article was recent, it's not a surprise. Democracies are SLOW and India is still a social democracy trying to be a capitalistic democracy - so even slower. Democracies move fast only during…

Factually if we take each point in the Article, a lot has changed and yet not enough: 1. You can get cross country SIM card easily in India today. 2. Taxes for IT business is uniform (no incentive for export per se) 3. Indian IT industry did just fine during bubble burst so Author's cyncism was bit misplaced. 4. Indian aviation industry is fierecly competitive. Today no one worries about future of Air India not becau…

Sim cards charge heavily for "roaming" in other states. A sim card still truly belongs to only one state.

Despite the tax reform, doing any business in India is still a hassle nevertheless.

Indian aviation industry may be competitive, but can a middle-class family really afford an airplane ticket ? No. They are only afforded the option of a second class train ticket which have toilets worse than the one shown in Trainspotting. And I haven't even touched the topic of trains being overcrowded. Seriously, who thought letting any number of people with a ticket on the train was a good idea ?

Re: India (2002)

#45

Post by myth_buster »

dang wrote: post #42
myth_buster wrote: post #34

Can a title be more vague? I think it may make sense to use this title in the original article as the site might carry some context but using it in HN doesn't seem too efficient.

A little inefficiency—not much, just enough to be a speed bump—is a good thing on the HN front page, because it interrupts the usual internet reflexes. Reflexive responses, being predictable, are not interesting. What we want are reflective responses. Reflection is a slower process, requiring a pause. So I think it's good if we readers have to work a little: it slows us down, and maybe activates better circuitry.

I agree with you on slowing down "reflexive responses" but I would say cryptic titles may not be the right approach specially on weekdays.

If I've to read an essay to understand the context the chances are I'll put it off for later and unfortunately will not be able to participate in the discussion.

Re: India (2002)

#46

Post by ksk »

Heh. It reads like the usual "business" article with several apriori assumptions. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I'm OK with bias as long as people don't claim to be neutral.

* Capitalism good, Socialism bad * All countries should emulate the west. * "Not Business friendly" - Code for this country won't let us exploit their people.

Then we come to the actual substance.

>First, revenues from software made by Indian companies is taxed while export revenues are tax-exempt. In other words, an Indian company has no incentive to do local business.

Uh, yeah. Sure. All the people doing exactly that don't exist. They have no incentive !!

>By then, India may have learned to practice true economic reform, taking a lesson from their neighbors in China.

Why would anyone want to take a lesson from China? - Which BTW continues to forcibly exert control over the lives of her people (including businesses).

>Maybe then they will understand that a free-market economy isn't necessarily a new form of colonialism.

Wow. Dude, India has been trading and doing business with East Africa, the Middle East, all of south Asia including China since like 6 AD. We 'understand' how to trade just fine.

Re: India (2002)

#47

Post by hariis »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #35
hariis wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, the locals do not understand the damage done by Walmart, Amazon and such until it is too late. One example, http://storyofstuff.org/blog/dear-jeff-bezos-im-leaving/

I see the gist of this article (which is positive) but some "hunches" of writer are conveniently converted in to facts. Take this for example: "They have to race from one end to the other of warehouses the size of 16 football fields." Has she ever been inside a warehouse? Or worked at a warehouse? Or have a friend who works there? Sure those warehouses are indeed huge. Not one but multiple football fields long, at le…

The impact is more than warehouse conditions. see this, for example: http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/06/17/with-6000-n...

Re: India (2002)

#48

Post by 1024core »

1971genocide wrote: post #41
1024core wrote: post #37

We (Indians) can look all over for the causes of what ails India, but not at the one place where a majority of the blame lies: ourselves. We will bemoan the corrupt system; but given a chance to make life a little bit easier, not hesitate to offer a bribe. We will spew venom at the useless politicians who do nothing but line their pockets; but then turn around and vote for one based on caste/religion. We will express…

I agree with you. But you are not giving India enough credit. India has a corruption problem - and so does the americans, british, europeans, etc . Hell The LIBOR scandal is on 900 trillion dollars. And this is before I bring up 2008. Privatization is not that answer. Look at the situation at Bangladesh if you want to see what privatization leads to.

Corruption may be a problem in the US too, but, having lived here for a decade, I can assure you I've never been asked nor offered a single bribe. Corruption doesn't affect the common man directly here. In any case: just because it's in some other country, makes it all right to do it in India, right? Instead of racing for the bottom, why not try racing to the top, and compare India to Sweden, Norway, etc.?

Secondly: I never brought up privatization.

Re: India (2002)

#49

Post by chengiz »

trequartista wrote: post #28
pm90 wrote: post #23

The article is honest but the last paragraph makes me question whether it really was.. > India really is not a rational country. The English mushed India together in the panic of independence in 1947, but little heed was given to ethnic, religious, linguistic, historic, national, or geographic considerations which is one reason India has had problems with every one of its neighbors since. India as we know it will not…

People have been talking about the "Balkanization of India" for a while now. But there are no signs of this yet. Indians have a deep rooted (albeit slightly misguided and maybe even chauvinistic) sense of patriotism.

Patriotism is there, but the main problem here is that India is pretty much already very Balkanized in geography and class if not national boundaries. It also has a strong central government. Any revolutionary/indepedence movements therefore tend to be fringe (someone in Maharashtra does not really care for farmer movement in Bengal) and easily controlled (due to the strong center). The patriotism means that any overtly violent army action is not frowned upon but rather encouraged by most who have a voice. The extreme poverty means the poor are so wretched they do not have a voice. We have met people on a two hour drive (which means only about 30 km) outside Mumbai who have never been to a big city and know nothing beyond how to get to the next day. If by some magic, most Indians become a bit educated tomorrow, and have some life other than mere existence, then we can talk about actual Balkanization. Until then, India will exist as it always has. There is also the Partition which has affected the national psyche: talk of dividing the country is like so far out there, you'd be considered a traitor a few levels before that.

Re: India (2002)

#50

Post by kalyanganjam »

test001only wrote: post #39
signal11 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a column about that recently: "End the IAS" (the IAS is the successor to the Colonial-era ICS iirc) http://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/mihir-s-sha...

That article is highly one sided and too radical. What would you do after abolishing the IAS? What would it be replaced with? Is that going to end all the evil in India? The diversity and complexity in India is so huge that every policy decision needs to be considered from multiple points of view before implementing. India is now in a position were it has to manage the aspiration of both the new middle and upper midd…

>>That article is highly one sided and too radical.

Not at all. If anything, It is In fact too soft for the problems IAS system continues to cause.

>>What would you do after abolishing the IAS? What would it be replaced with?

That's a good question. This has been studied at length by many many brilliant minds. One of the bright minds (an EX-IAS officer) that I know who studied this at length is Sanjeev Sabhlok (https://twitter.com/sabhlok). Sanjeev has a rigourously refined solution. Highly detailed implementation plan that is so detailed that even a junior IAS officer can understand. Please visit http://www.sabhlokcity.com/tag/ias/ for general reading and his book "Breaking Free of Nehru"

>>People who complain usually would not have a good solution or are probably too far away from the ground reality.

One does not need always need to know the solution to recognize a problem. Recognizing and acknowledging the problem is first of the many steps towards solving it.

>>Is that going to end all the evil in India?

This is a necessary but not sufficient condition. No one thing will end all evil in India. There are ways to end, but not one silver bullet.

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