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SF author Greg Egan reviews Avatar

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Re: SF author Greg Egan reviews Avatar

#41
post #16

He recommends Princess Mononoke. It's that fact alone that makes me take his review into consideration. If you haven't seen Princess Mononoke, I'd highly recommend it. Actually, I'd recommend all the Studio Ghibli films. My wife and I have the entire collection, and are in the middle of watching the last one we haven't watched yet, Porco Rosso (which is so far, fantastic). "These" are the kinds of animations I, perso…

Yeah, Princess Mononoke is really a lovely film. I thought when Spirited Away came out and became popular that people would naturally go back and check out Mononoke, but it didn't happen that much. Definitely worth a watch.

As for Avatar -

My two biggest complaints:

1. It paints it as black and white, good vs. evil. This is such a common source of human misery and brainwashing that I thought we'd started to move past in cinema. Every leader worth anything tries to play the underdog card. Ask yourself about every cause you sincerely respect and believe in - do any of your leaders not paint it as you vs. the world? The New York Yankees are the only organization I can think of that don't try to play the underdog external evil enemies card. All the world religions do, all political parties do, all nations do, and so on.

2. My housemate had a great quote - he said, "They completed de-humanized the humans before doing all the violence to them." It's quite right - the evil military industrial capitalist marines have no family members, loved ones, passions, or good about them. They exist to be eaten by dinosaurs, shot by arrows, crushed, beaten, and shredded. There's no marine who signed on for a security job, got a little freaked out what's happening, and died due to the complex violent decisions of the leaders. Nope, all the marines are not even human or worth sympathizing with at all - destroy the expoiters, make violence on them, and they deserve all the hells we can visit upon them.

When you take "we're completely good and they're completely evil" and mix it with "our enemies aren't even human", you get a recipe for horrible atrocities. I watched a documentary of what the Imperial Japanese Army soldiers was thinking at Nanking. They regarded their cause as God's work, and their Chinese enemies as not human.

Never mind the specific politics. Do we really want our epic, landmark art to assert that there is in fact pure good, pure evil, and the people with different views than us are pure evil and aren't even human? I kept trying to think of if I had a kid, how I'd talk to him or her after watching that to understand that the "clear good and evil" thinking leads to very bad places.

Re: SF author Greg Egan reviews Avatar

#42
post #22

I thoroughly enjoyed Avatar . While its plot wasn't complex, deep, and enriching; it still had a plot. One that was blended well with other sub-plots. It also served well with the world building. The plot didn't distract from it and the eye candy didn't distract from the plot. It was a perfect balance in my opinion for what it is. A beautiful film that is opening the doors for fresh and new science fiction (which has…

I too enjoyed the movie quite a bit. I can agree that the plot was simplistic, but I for one did not find the dialog horrible. Like the review points out, it comes off like something mixing elements of Disney movies like "The Lion King" and "Pocahontas," which admittedly are movies I get a little choked up at. For me personally, that gave it a certain innocence and heartfelt quality. Is it predictable?Sure, but that doesn't neccessarily make it bad. I was emotionally engaded as well as visually stimulated, if not intellectually challenged by the film. For better or worse, that made it great for me.

Re: SF author Greg Egan reviews Avatar

#44
post #7

Upvoted not just for the insightful and non-snarky review, but because Greg Egan is a) the best science-fiction writer most people have never heard of - it's practically impossible to find his work in a US bookstore - and b) an interesting writer on both science and code. Science: http://www.gregegan.net/FOUNDATIONS/index.html Java Applets: http://www.gregegan.net/APPLETS/Applets.html

Are his books as overwritten as this review? Honest question, as I found the review pretty leaden, but I'm always looking for interesting sci-fi.

I recommend three of them: Permutation City, Diaspora, and Axiomatic. Here's the opening chapter of Diaspora:

http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/DIASPORA/01/Orphano...

Re: SF author Greg Egan reviews Avatar

#45
post #16

He recommends Princess Mononoke. It's that fact alone that makes me take his review into consideration. If you haven't seen Princess Mononoke, I'd highly recommend it. Actually, I'd recommend all the Studio Ghibli films. My wife and I have the entire collection, and are in the middle of watching the last one we haven't watched yet, Porco Rosso (which is so far, fantastic). "These" are the kinds of animations I, perso…

Yeah, Princess Mononoke is really a lovely film. I thought when Spirited Away came out and became popular that people would naturally go back and check out Mononoke, but it didn't happen that much. Definitely worth a watch. As for Avatar - My two biggest complaints: 1. It paints it as black and white, good vs. evil. This is such a common source of human misery and brainwashing that I thought we'd started to move past…

Yeah. An alternate reading of Avatar (supported by the text) is the story of a stolid marine colonel's tragic death in support of a mission to establish humanity's last hope for escaping the dying Earth. Sending humanity back at the end of the movie, with the exception of two collaborators, is genocide of the entire human race.

I know, that isn't quite the Wars For Oil Suck, Love Your Purple Bambi Earth Goddesses Or You Will Be Brutally Slain thing he was going for, but still.

(Edited to add: Am I a bad person if I sympathized with the marine colonel most out of any character? "Oh blimey, traitors have just stolen a top-of-the-line helicopter gunship armed with missiles that could blow us all apart. Men, masks on! I'm about to blow the door, step unprotected into an environment filled with poisonous gas, and engage them singlehandedly. With a sidearm.")

Re: SF author Greg Egan reviews Avatar

#46
post #29
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Egan gets your point entirely, and laments that it hasn't been put in service of something better. The best technology in the world deserves to be joined with a great script, not a severely impaired one.

All new technologies are first paired with non-risky material. So they use a non-risky script, with nothing objectionable in it. Once the technology matures you can use a better script. The price of better is that sometimes it's worse, that's why it's a risk. If it was a sure thing everyone would do it, but it's not easy to create something great. You can try, and sometimes you'll make it, and other times you'll flop…

So they use a non-risky script, with nothing objectionable in it.

How did we get to the point where "Humans are evil, kill them all!" is a non-risky script with nothing objectionable in it?

Re: SF author Greg Egan reviews Avatar

#49
post #15
post #8

Despite it being a rehash of Great Nature vs. Technological Fucking Civilization, Avatar has going for it a much better plot than Titanic , a completely hokey, treacly, implausible film that won eleven Oscars and is still uncontested in terms of box-office revenues .

You're forgetting that Titanic was like the Twilight of its time. Tween/teen girls flocked to watch the movie multiple times to watch Leonardo DiCaprio in his love story. IIRC, I remember a claim that one girl saw the movie 13 times. Without the 'teenage heart-throb' factor, I wonder if it can match up to Titanic in terms of numbers.

I knew a girl who had seen it twenty-something times. She had issues.

Personally, though, I still think it's quite a good film. Some aspects of the love story grate a little (in particular Leonardo DiCaprio's always-perfect character) as does the characterization of all first class passengers as snooty jerks and all third class passengers as idealized salt of the Earth (come to think of it, that's pretty much the same problem as Avatar) but as soon as the ship starts sinking it becomes a fairly gripping story. Hardly the greatest film in history, but perfectly watchable and rewatchable even if you're not a 17-year-old girl.

Re: SF author Greg Egan reviews Avatar

#50
post #46
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All new technologies are first paired with non-risky material. So they use a non-risky script, with nothing objectionable in it. Once the technology matures you can use a better script. The price of better is that sometimes it's worse, that's why it's a risk. If it was a sure thing everyone would do it, but it's not easy to create something great. You can try, and sometimes you'll make it, and other times you'll flop…

So they use a non-risky script, with nothing objectionable in it. How did we get to the point where "Humans are evil, kill them all!" is a non-risky script with nothing objectionable in it?

Because it wasn't a humans are evil, kill them all plot, it was a standard corporations are evil and stupid and scientists are good and help the natives plot. Humans were the good guys here as well as the bad.
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